its getting old now i know, but management look at this thread.

[Test:Tube:Baby]

While I don't agree with Mad's decision about the iPod skin, I don't feel the need to go on about it, because a response has been given and it is not likely to change.

I think that some people need to start accepting that answer is no and move on to something else.

And no, I'm not just "huddling in with Mad". I usually don't agree with his response to some of the threads in the Feedback forum, but I just accept his reply and move on.

[risque]

At risque: In Dave's day, the population of the forum was about a tenth of what it is now. I'd say the amount of complaints are proportional.

Sorry, but what does that matter? Just because the members have gradually increased since his departure does not mean that all of those members are active. Besides, saying there were only a tenth of the members is slightly over-exaggerative) There was plenty of activity during his 'reign', I'd say pretty much the same as there is now. But even if there wasn't, there wasn't a major difference. What I am getting at is that there were barely any complaints, which shows that he was able to stay on the good side of the members by doing things that benefitted them rather than himself. (Pretty much the opposite, today - don't you think?)

It's a fact that he ran the forum better. And regarding the iPod skin, there was a more than valuable argument as to why the skin should be implemented. If you can't dedicate just a little extra time to making your members happier than you don't deserve to be given such a high position. It's my opinion, thanks.

[Adzeh]

Sorry, but what does that matter? Just because the members have gradually increased since his departure does not mean that all of those members are active. Besides, saying there were only a tenth of the members is slightly over-exaggerative) There was plenty of activity during his 'reign', I'd say pretty much the same as there is now. But even if there wasn't, there wasn't a major difference. What I am getting at is that there were barely any complaints, which shows that he was able to stay on the good side of the members by doing things that benefitted them rather than himself. (Pretty much the opposite, today - don't you think?)

It's a fact that he ran the forum better. And regarding the iPod skin, there was a more than valuable argument as to why the skin should be implemented. If you can't dedicate just a little extra time to making your members happier than you don't deserve to be given such a high position. It's my opinion, thanks.

It is not the point of a leader to give people what they want. A leader is there to make big decisions on what should and should not go on within their community, based on the positive negative implications of putting that idea in place.

Large scale example would be Gordon Brown. He would not blindly agree to a change in law or a new proposal, simply because a high percentage of the population wanted it to go through. Other factors are involved, including how easy it is to implement. From what I gather, it is extremely difficult to implement an ipod skin, and not worth the time to constantly update it every time we have a forum update.

[samsaBEAR]

That is a bad generalisation and one that isn't true in the slightest. Contrary to popular belief, staff are allowed an opinion and, if they know how to express it in the right way, will do so. You'll often see me disagreeing and arguing some of what the upper management say, and sometimes agreeing with them. Just because we don't take the side of the members who want something all the time, doesn't mean we're suckups to higher management.

it would appear that 9 times out of 10 the management side with MAD. i apologise if i have offended though

It only needs one reply.

What is the point of him saying no, 120 times over?

If it is too hard to implement a new ipod skin, then it is too hard. Move on?

At risque: In Dave's day, the population of the forum was about a tenth of what it is now. I'd say the amount of complaints are proportional.

no, because its not just the ipod skin. its the feedback in general. for every 10 threads, we may get 4-5 replies by MAD/higher management. this isn't good enough, we should get a reply in every thread. management claims they want feedback, thus they should tell us whether they think it's good or bad, and if it can be put into action. not just ignore the thread and let it collect dust

It is not the point of a leader to give people what they want. A leader is there to make big decisions on what should and should not go on within their community, based on the positive negative implications of putting that idea in place.

the only negative implication of putting an ipod skin into place is the time it will take. MAD took at least a couple of days to put in a chat room that bearly anyone uses. surely he can take 1-2 hours out of his 'busy' schedule to put in a skin that most people clearly want.
having said that, hollywood found this:
http://www.vbulletin.org/forum/showt...highlight=ipod
as far as i know, it is simply a new skin. there is also a link to a mod that will force mobile users to use that skin.
ive never used vBulletin before, but im sure that wont take a couple of days, plus it costs nothing.

[DaveTaylor]

A skin takes all of 5 minutes to install basically, thank you for the link to the Vbulletin.org as that will really show its possible
http://ready.mobi/results.jsp?uri=ht...m&locale=en_EN

[risque]

It is not the point of a leader to give people what they want. A leader is there to make big decisions on what should and should not go on within their community, based on the positive negative implications of putting that idea in place. Large scale example would be Gordon Brown. He would not blindly agree to a change in law or a new proposal, simply because a high percentage of the population wanted it to go through. Other factors are involved, including how easy it is to implement.

I don't see how you can even attempt to make that comparison. An online forum manager and the Prime Minister? That takes the biscuit. As good as your logic is with the comparison, I don't see how it even merely comes close to what a leader of a forum should and shouldn't do. There is a huge difference. It wouldn't matter if there weren't many people in the UK, Gordon would still be the Prime Minister. However that is different when it comes to a forum, without the members - a forum is nothing, it's pretty much non-existant on a basis of popularity and activity. Dave understood that the members pretty much played the biggest role in Habbox Forum and thanked these members by implementing rules that weren't so drastic and over the top.

I don't see why and how people should be infracted for such small things for example, minor arguments. I could understand why the rule is in place if there were extreme arguments with threats and such, but being infracted for a misunderstanding and a brief disagreement? That is pathetic. The management treat this forum like a pre-school, and treat the members like pre-school children too.

If a major population of the UK/England whatever made a petition for changes then yeah, I'm pretty sure he would consider changing these things; and listening to the people that he pretty much rules over.

From what I gather, it is extremely difficult to implement an ipod skin, and not worth the time to constantly update it every time we have a forum update.

So what? The members keep the forum alive. Without the members, there would be no point in continuing to pay for the domain or hosting. At least do SOME things for the members, it's hardly asking for a whole new website, is it?

[Catzsy]

I've said it so many times but DJ-3000/Dave actually went with the majority rather than the minority when it came to decisions. I don't remember there being even a tenth of complaints that happen nowadays when he was in charge. Yes, I know - he isn't going to return but at least have a manager who has just SOME respect for the members who come up with reasonably decent ideas rather than basically disregarding them all, and labelling the tasks as 'too much work'. Lots of things have worsened since people of Daves nature stepped down. (Dave, Anita, Mizki, etc) For instance, these things don't really exist anymore;

- Reasonable punishment (not being infractioned for calling somebody stupid, or accusing them of lying.)
- Care for members' opinions
- Unbiased management/staff

Well I personally agree with you on having a warning for mild 'insults' if that is what you mean but I am not quite sure what you are saying there? Do you mean you want infractions for that because it reads both ways?

Well I do think quite a few people do care about your opinions in a unbiased way.

It only needs one reply.

What is the point of him saying no, 120 times over?

If it is too hard to implement a new ipod skin, then it is too hard. Move on?

At risque: In Dave's day, the population of the forum was about a tenth of what it is now. I'd say the amount of complaints are proportional.

If you read Tom's (FlyingJesus) post it is being considered by the AGMs and the council.

[Xarea]

It only needs one reply.

What is the point of him saying no, 120 times over?

If it is too hard to implement a new ipod skin, then it is too hard. Move on?

At risque: In Dave's day, the population of the forum was about a tenth of what it is now. I'd say the amount of complaints are proportional.

Thought you left.

[The Professor]

it would appear that 9 times out of 10 the management side with MAD. i apologise if i have offended though

No worries The thing you won't see is management saying OMGZ HABB0X STAFF IZ CORRUPTIFIED, because that's just like standing outside your greengrocer's shop saying "A dog peed on my food!" It might seem like we're one sided all the time because we don't do that, but we isn't Or at least I'm not, I can't speak for the rest of the staff.

I don't see why and how people should be infracted for such small things for example, minor arguments. I could understand why the rule is in place if there were extreme arguments with threats and such, but being infracted for a misunderstanding and a brief disagreement? That is pathetic. The management treat this forum like a pre-school, and treat the members like pre-school children too.

If a major population of the UK/England whatever made a petition for changes then yeah, I'm pretty sure he would consider changing these things; and listening to the people that he pretty much rules over.

I think you're moving away from the issue of the thread, which is management not replying to suggestions as well as they could do. However, that level of moderation is necessary if people are going to act like pre-school children, which a fair portion of the forum do. Differences of opinion are completely allowed, and discussions and civilised arguments are indeed allowed, but when people start throwing insults about the place and move away from what they were talking about, its a moderator's job to step in and diffuse it.

People in the UK can make as many petitions and protests they like, but I can't see the government taking much notice at all, I point to the foxhunting ban as my case study. They do however take into account suggestions, such as new areas for teenagers to hang around, suggestions for how best to go about traffic calming etc. Hitting the balance between listening to people and doing what they want, and acting as a leader is extremely difficult, and there isn't a leader yet to walk the earth who has managed to please everyone while being an effective leader.

Thought you left.

He resigned from habbox.