BNP-Military row continues

[-:Undertaker:-]

what? are you ok in the head? how is that hypocritical? labour and the government aren't saying anything about it at all? and even if they did that still wouldn't be hypocritical. ex-military members are complaining about this, perhaps they are offended by their use. I'm not quite sure who you mean by the 'establishment,' perhaps everyone that you disagree with? people who are against the BNP?

I don't understand what your last statement has with this article. Have you lost it?

I don't think you get it.

The generals are criticising the BNP for using military images yet they say nothing on Labour sending them into an illegal war, and two wars without the correct equipment which has killed and wounded our young men and women.

The establishment, are those who label people racist/xenophobic for not supporting the European Union or politically correct ideas.

On the last issue, I think you know full well what I mean but you are trying to twist my words. I am saying, is it not strange how every dark detail about the BNP is reported widely on and criticised by both the media and the ruling Lib/Lab/Con, yet the dark histories of Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs' is not discussed at all, despite them supporting a evil state which murdered millions upon millions in the name of socialism.

Surely looking into the past history of MPs undermines parliament. They've been legitimately elected into parliament by the people (It would be undemocratic to remove them because of this). Not only that but older views are irrelevant to today.

It's also not a crime to support Communism even if you strongly disagree with it.

I have not said it is a crime, I am saying that it is wrong to criticise the BNP for having members who do not agree that the holocaust occured when Labour/Liberal Democrat MPs' were once all involved in marxist and communist partys who were sympathetic to the former Soviet Union - at a time when millions were still locked up for 'crimes' against the state.

I believe any party should be allowed to campaign for any policy, I believe any party should be able to use world war II images or the Union Flag - however I do not believe that individual parties and their leaders should have witchhunts conducted against them by the media and the ruling elite.

[Inseriousity.]

There should be free speech but with free speech comes a responsibility to treat it with respect and if the BNP fail to do this by using military images in an inappropriate manner (if that's what they are doing, I'm not completely up-to-date atm), they should be stopped.

[-:Undertaker:-]

There should be free speech but with free speech comes a responsibility to treat it with respect and if the BNP fail to do this by using military images in an inappropriate manner (if that's what they are doing, I'm not completely up-to-date atm), they should be stopped.

Who said they are using military images in an inappropiate manner? - the issue is why have the military found it so compelling to criticise the BNP over the usage of world war II pictures (which the BNP are entitled to use anyway) when the ruling Labour party has sent our troops into two wars without the correct equipment along with withholding the military budget consistantly over the past decade?

Do we now live in a 'democracy' where the Lib/Lab/Con group are immune from criticism yet any parties which are a threat to them can be labelled anything by both the Lib/Lab/Con group and the military and the services in general?

It really does make me laugh why people are so confused as to why the BNP are gathering so much support.

[Cheryl]

Totally agree.

The military shouldn't be involved in politics I agree with that, it's the BNP who dragged them into it, forcing them to resist.

The military did not chose to be dragged into this, hence the letter, also the BNP should open their eyes and realize that just because they have 2 European Seats, they will not hold of this patriotic and civilized country of ours, yes we get racists, but how do we define being fully British, being an island inherits the things that go with it, such as being invaded and certain times in our history and thus having a diverse multi-cultural society.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The military did not chose to be dragged into this, hence the letter, also the BNP should open their eyes and realize that just because they have 2 European Seats, they will not hold of this patriotic and civilized country of ours, yes we get racists, but how do we define being fully British, being an island inherits the things that go with it, such as being invaded and certain times in our history and thus having a diverse multi-cultural society.

The BNP raise important issues about immigration and multi-culturalism that the main parties ignore, despite the European Union and immigration being key concerns in peoples' minds. The BNP also seem to be one of the only parties which tell the truth, it tells people what its views are and it is that simple. That is why they are gathering support, people are sick of the liars in the Lib/Lab/Con pact hence why people do not bother voting anymore.

The military did choose to get dragged into this, they did not have to comment and have no right to comment in the BNP using military pictures, because all images of world war II are not owned by the government or the military therefore the BNP has the democratic and legal right to use them pictures.

The more the British people hear the elite telling them not to vote BNP (while the elite squander taxpayer money in expense claims, are involved in fraud and the rest..) the more people will turn to the BNP and it is that simple but when will our politicians learn?

Who do I trust more out of Labour and the BNP? - the BNP, I may not like or agree with every single thing they say, but I know they have the interests of this country in their hands as they see it - the same cannot sadly be said for Labour who have signed away over 75% of this country to the European Union over the past decade, with help from the Conservatives and Liberal Democrats and who have never once stuck up for the ordinary people in this country.

"First they ignore you, then they ridicule you, then they fight you, then you win." - Mahatma Ghandi

[alexxxxx]

I don't think you get it.

The generals are criticising the BNP for using military images yet they say nothing on Labour sending them into an illegal war, and two wars without the correct equipment which has killed and wounded our young men and women.

I don't think you understand what civil servants have to abide by. My father is a civil servant and he has to make sure that his political beliefs cannot get in his way, he cannot express his distaste for the political parties that he serves because that is his job. It is the same for the military. It is well noted that the armed forces asked for more equipment, they did ask for it. But it isn't really their job to come out and critisise Labour or the Conservatives (or anyone else) nor endorse anyone. Now they are no longer in the army they are well within their rights to do so. If they want to express their disgust they can. The BNP are well within their rights to use those images, but it is revolting that they do so and very disrespectful. It is not hypocritical of these officers at all. You mustn't understand what hypocritical means.

The establishment, are those who label people racist/xenophobic for not supporting the European Union or politically correct ideas.

That's because they are. Calling someone a bum boy isn't just non politically correct, it's offensive and homophobic. The BNP are racist and definatly xenophobic.

On the last issue, I think you know full well what I mean but you are trying to twist my words. I am saying, is it not strange how every dark detail about the BNP is reported widely on and criticised by both the media and the ruling Lib/Lab/Con, yet the dark histories of Labour and Liberal Democrat MPs' is not discussed at all, despite them supporting a evil state which murdered millions upon millions in the name of socialism.

When a relatively up-and-coming party comes into the frame, is it not appropriate to go through their history? Labour's old socialist ideas are well known. That's where their party came from. That's why they got votes.

Every time you say Lib/Lab/Con i get more convinced that you are a bnp supporter. UKIP not pledging to get rid of the black people irritating you or something?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't think you understand what civil servants have to abide by. My father is a civil servant and he has to make sure that his political beliefs cannot get in his way, he cannot express his distaste for the political parties that he serves because that is his job. It is the same for the military. It is well noted that the armed forces asked for more equipment, they did ask for it. But it isn't really their job to come out and critisise Labour or the Conservatives (or anyone else) nor endorse anyone. Now they are no longer in the army they are well within their rights to do so. If they want to express their disgust they can. The BNP are well within their rights to use those images, but it is revolting that they do so and very disrespectful. It is not hypocritical of these officers at all. You mustn't understand what hypocritical means.

I am asking then, why have the military criticised the BNP and why have they not criticised the Labour government for failing to provide troops with armour. I think you have it the wrong way around, is it revolting to send young men and women into a war without armour - that is revolting.

On the point of beliefs, if beliefs are not allowed to intervene with work then why are police not allowed to support the BNP yet are allowed to support any other political party? - yet again its one sided, this isn't democracy!.

When a relatively up-and-coming party comes into the frame, is it not appropriate to go through their history? Labour's old socialist ideas are well known. That's where their party came from. That's why they got votes.

Hang on, so you are telling me it is perfectly fine to bully and give a new party bad press, yet parties such as Labour who supported marxist/communist groups sympathetic to the USSR at a time when the USSR still had millions being locked up and executed for political crimes are ok to be ignored? - what an interesting viewpoint you have on democracy.

It seems to be that is was fine for the Labour party members to openly support the USSR which had murdered millions of its own people, yet for the odd BNP member to question the holocaust it must mean that the whole of the BNP supports the Nazi Party, not to mention the fact socialism murdered more people than Hitler ever came near to doing.

Every time you say Lib/Lab/Con i get more convinced that you are a bnp supporter. UKIP not pledging to get rid of the black people irritating you or something?

Here we go again, I think you once called me xenophobic for wanting EU withdrawal (although not one hundred percent sure) and the party which I support (UKIP) was labelled racist a few weeks ago in another thread by another forum member. It does seem that because I do not agree with mass immigration, the European Union and political correctness that I must somehow be a BNP supporter - if you have such a black and white view of the world you won't go far.

I never said get rid of black people, and I do not support that at all as that is racist indeed. I support controlled immigration, multi-culturalism that works, a country which governs itself rather than foreign eurocrats in Brussels; aka a country that works. Do not attempt to twist my views/words to make it appear as if I support throwing out all black people, because that is totally wrong.

The one thing I support above all is fairness and democracy; I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.

[Ardemax]

"I think perhaps people should stop linking Nick Griffin and world war II and maybe question why Labour & Liberal Democrat MPs' were involved in marxist/socialist/communist groups during the 1970s".

I also think he is the one linking others to dead WW2 leaders/Nazi members.
Maybe they were in the 1970s, but things have changed.

[-:Undertaker:-]

"I think perhaps people should stop linking Nick Griffin and world war II and maybe question why Labour & Liberal Democrat MPs' were involved in marxist/socialist/communist groups during the 1970s".

I also think he is the one linking others to dead WW2 leaders/Nazi members.
Maybe they were in the 1970s, but things have changed.

Nick Griffin does not support Nazi leaders, whereas numerous Labour MPs' were sympathetic to the Soviet Union as recently as the 1980s'. I agree things do change, however things must also remain fair & just.

[alexxxxx]

I am asking then, why have the military criticised the BNP and why have they not criticised the Labour government for failing to provide troops with armour. I think you have it the wrong way around, is it revolting to send young men and women into a war without armour - that is revolting.
On the point of beliefs, if beliefs are not allowed to intervene with work then why are police not allowed to support the BNP yet are allowed to support any other political party? - yet again its one sided, this isn't democracy!.

Hang on, so you are telling me it is perfectly fine to bully and give a new party bad press, yet parties such as Labour who supported marxist/communist groups sympathetic to the USSR at a time when the USSR still had millions being locked up and executed for political crimes are ok to be ignored? - what an interesting viewpoint you have on democracy.



Here we go again, I think you once called me xenophobic for wanting EU withdrawal (although not one hundred percent sure) and the party which I support (UKIP) was labelled racist a few weeks ago in another thread by another forum member. It does seem that because I do not agree with mass immigration, the European Union and political correctness that I must somehow be a BNP supporter - if you have such a black and white view of the world you won't go far.

I never said get rid of black people, and I do not support that at all as that is racist indeed. I support controlled immigration, multi-culturalism that works, a country which governs itself rather than foreign eurocrats in Brussels; aka a country that works. Do not attempt to twist my views/words to make it appear as if I support throwing out all black people, because that is totally wrong.

The one thing I support above all is fairness and democracy; I may not agree with what you say, but I will defend your right to say it.

Right. The Military have complained to the government in an official manner about the state of what they have been given. That happened. It isn't relevant. Some ex-officers have expressed their displeasure of war images being used by the BNP. The police have a duty to make sure that each member of the community is dealt with equally. If the police decide independently that they think that the BNP goes further than being a political party in the traditional sense and more into a racist movement or if they think that their beliefs will hinder their job, then it is for them to decide. Not you, not me.

It isn't bullying the BNP. The BNP get chances in the media to express their true colours via the BBC, where they have been guests on many programmes in the past, newspapers and the like. I thought that the media most consumed by the people is what they like and expresses their thoughts like how alot of media is anti-eu. Or is your complaining about how they don't get fair treatment valid as it is something you support (ie the BNP). I don't know the specifics, but labour were very socialist at points in their history. It happened. The BNP are alot newer than the labour party and their background is quite rightly being exposed.