Brown portrays UKIP, BNP and the Conservatives as xenophobes on immigration

[alexxxxx]

Well they'd still allow visa applicants to come in for work but freeze the other parts of the system, afterall just under 1 million people to track, find, assess and deport is going to take a long time and hopefully it would be done (most of it anyway) within a 5 year term, one term of parliament in other words.

i don't understand what you mean, 'they'd still allow visa applicants.'

an immigrant requires a visa to live & work here and therefore become an immigrant? (unless you're from the EU, where you don't have to, but you can register at the police station and stuff)

[-:Undertaker:-]

i don't understand what you mean, 'they'd still allow visa applicants.'

an immigrant requires a visa to live & work here and therefore become an immigrant? (unless you're from the EU, where you don't have to, but you can register at the police station and stuff)

They would only be allowed a visa to come and work here and then go back home, EU nationals do not need visas which is something a UKIP government would change as it would leave the European Union. After the 5-year freeze we would then allow proceedings for immigrants to settle here provided they conformed to our standards which would be along the lines listed below;

• we require their area of work.
• the would not place a strain on the NHS or other services.
• they are financially able to support themselves.
• they have no criminal record.
• they are of an age which would be beneficial to the UK economy.
• they would be required to be moderate (to keep out extremists).

An excellent post by Alice and I would advise anyone reading to turn back the page to read her post.

[jrh2002]

NOBODY who comes here from abroad should be allowed access to our benefits system until they have worked here for 5 years. If they come on hard times during that period then we should give them a 1 way ticket home (if we deport prisoners with a 3k bonus to clear off then a 1 way ticket is nothing). I think the EU countries should have to look after their own citizens so if I am out of work living abroad then the UK picks up my tab and if there is a Polish person here out of work then Poland should pay their citizens benefits whatever country they are in (I can assure you the immigration numbers would drop by 80% over night). The UK is a soft touch and pays higher benefits than almost every other country so no wonder all the scum come running here. We need to get out of the EU so that we can set our own limits on who we let in and not bang on about the points system that in reality covers a very small percentage of people that are not EU citizens. We all know labour get a lot of votes and support from the immigrants and people on benefits so we all know the real reason they are allowing us to overflow.

[GommeInc]

The benefits system does need a ruddy good kick up the backside. The EMA should be totally scrapped too, in its current form (but that's another discussion entirely). The benefits system should only be for Brits who have been here for a good number of years, with exception to fighting with and for us in wars and anything that's benefitted us. It's harsh, but true :/

[Catzsy]

We lack skills in controlling benefits, we don’t have the right procedures in place to record when someone who is receiving benefits is sent to prison, and similarly this also applies to immigrants. We need to get a proper grip, it was recently published that we had paid out some £27 million in benefits to criminals.

It's been revealed that £6million was overpaid to criminals behind bars in 2008/09, a 50 per cent rise over the £4million figure the year before.

Some £7 million was overpaid in 2006/07, £4 million in 2005/06 and £6 million in 2004/05 - a total of £27 million in the last five years.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0jn5f8xPS

A LANDMARK ruling that allows jobless migrants to claim benefits in Britain for their children living in their home country sparked outrage last night.

Critics warned the judgment could "open the door" to thousands of benefits tourists abusing generous payouts in Britain.

In yesterday’s High Court ruling " showing how EU law is taking precedence over the UK"s " a Portuguese national living in Britain won a legal battle for child benefit for his two daughters in his home country despite no longer working and claiming incapacity benefit here.

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/...hildren-abroad

As someone described it, it’s a kick in the teeth to all those hard working Britons. Is it any wonder the kitty is running dry and the Labour government did talk about a death tax?

This headline makes my blood boil. What was the cost to taxpayers?
A government blunder allowed a convicted rapist to win the right to get married in Britain - and avoid deportation by just two hours.

Read more: http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0jnBL92kB

When we do eventually deport, it’s not difficult to come back within hours.

Look whose back! Red faces at the Home Office as Algerian bag snatcher who has been deported twice is arrested yet again.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/arti...#ixzz0jnHN8nmh


We need to get control of the situation, because right now we are the welfare for the world.

NOBODY who comes here from abroad should be allowed access to our benefits system until they have worked here for 5 years. If they come on hard times during that period then we should give them a 1 way ticket home (if we deport prisoners with a 3k bonus to clear off then a 1 way ticket is nothing). I think the EU countries should have to look after their own citizens so if I am out of work living abroad then the UK picks up my tab and if there is a Polish person here out of work then Poland should pay their citizens benefits whatever country they are in (I can assure you the immigration numbers would drop by 80% over night). The UK is a soft touch and pays higher benefits than almost every other country so no wonder all the scum come running here. We need to get out of the EU so that we can set our own limits on who we let in and not bang on about the points system that in reality covers a very small percentage of people that are not EU citizens. We all know labour get a lot of votes and support from the immigrants and people on benefits so we all know the real reason they are allowing us to overflow.

Well I guess you will be voting conservative or UKIP then

I have to say that quoting from naturally right wing papers isn't always going to get a measured view. I do try to read both right wing and left wing papers.

Whilst your views are respected I feel they are quite harsh. Less than 3% of eastern europeans who have migrated here claim benefits. In fact their work ethic is probably better than our own. Labour has worked quite hard to combat the benefit culture by abolishing both incapacity benefit and job seekers allowance for 16 - 18 years old. Less than 10% of the population were not born here so technically are immigrants. This is not going to make a great deal of difference in an election especially they have to have British Citizenship which can take years.

Some facts:

Migrants

All foreign nationals must have a national insurance number to claim benefits. Some EU
citizens are entitled to claim as long as they are working or actively seeking work and
have an NI number. Citizens from the new EU countries (A8) are not entitled to benefits
until they have been here at least two years or are registered with the government
Registration Scheme. To register they must have a job. After a year of employment they
may be eligible for certain state benefits - child benefits, tax credit, housing benefit and
housing accommodation. People from other countries must have special work permits
and cannot generally claim benefits.

Illegal immigrants

They are not entitled to any benefits.

Asylum Seekers
They are not entitled to benefits.


What rights do they have to housing?

Migrants

If they have an NI number, have a right to be in the UK and are residents of the UK they
may go on the housing register. If ‘A8’ migrant workers seek housing accommodation
during their first year Arun DC are not obliged to provide any assistance. After one year
in the UK providing they are in permanent legal employment, A8 migrants have the
same rights as UK residents and can apply for housing assistance and will be eligible to
join the housing register. In all cases migrant workers get no preferential treatment and
their need is assessed in the same way as anyone else who applies. ☛

Illegal immigrants

They are not entitled to housing.

Asylum Seekers

They are not entitled to housing. They are housed through NASS or privately

Migrants

Generally they have the right to register as an NHS patient with a doctor if they are here
for a settled purpose (i.e. are intending to be resident here for six months or over). If
they are not residents then they are treated as private patients.

Illegal immigrants

They cannot register as an NHS patient and will only be treated in an emergency by a
hospital or GP.

Asylum Seekers

They have the right to register as an NHS patient at a GP surgery.

Myth
All the immigrants come to Britain - we are way down the table.

Fact
Switzerland has one of the highest percentage of immigrant population in Europe with nearly 23% of its total population (1.5 millions of immigrants). Latvia (19%), Estonia (15%), Austria (15%), Ukraine (15%), Croatia (15%), Cyprus (14.3%), Ireland (14%), Moldova (13%), Germany (12%), Sweden (12%), Belarus (12%), Spain (11.4%), France (10%), and the Netherlands (10%)Italy (8.4%), United Kingdom (8.9%), Greece (8.6%), Russia (8.4%), Italy (8.4%) ,Slovenia (8.3%), Norway (7.4%), Portugal (7.2%), Denmark (7.1%), Iceland (7.6%), , Belgium (6.9%)

The British population in Spain is over 8% and Britains can claim benefits.

Social Security Benefits and Emigrating Within the EU
If you’re moving within the EU, you’re normally able to carry on receiving similar benefits to that which you received in the UK. You will be insured for social security purposes in the country you work in and are allowed to receive the same kind of benefits of nationals of that country. In order to do this, you must of course contribute at the same level as members of your new nation. This can be extremely beneficial, as it will entitle you to the rights of sickness and maternity benefits, work accident cover, unemployment supplements, family allowances and more. For countries that are within the EEA, you should have no problem with receiving comparable benefits.


Personally I feel that both posts show only the headline stories that people who vote for the righter
wing parties will be interested in and want to believe and perhaps should be a but more measured.
I am not a fan of Gordon Brown myself as he is a ditherer but tbf any prime minister faced with the global recession of this magnitude would be under pressure. I am also not a big fan of the EU either
but unless the right wing start being a bit less hysterical in their arguments (I don't mean the conservatives) they are not going to persuade the people able to sanction a referendum to do so.

[-:Undertaker:-]

In your post Rosie, you have just listed a number of things that they can claim on as though its a trivial issue. It is not a trivial issue. When will you and the three main parties get it into your heads that we want controls over our borders; we do not want people here who are just trying to milk the benefits system and have never done a days job in their lifetime, we do not want criminals here, we do not want just under one million illegal immigrants here committing crimes and sucking the system dry with fake IDs. Why on earth should we pay for all of this?. If the politicians from the three main parties (Labour especially) love these people so much, they should seriously consider funding them themselves because we are fed up of it.

In regards to the European Union I am afraid you cannot talk about anything especially immigration without tackling this issue. As Lord Pearson is reported to have said, the Conservatives claim to be tough on immigration and border controls yet fail to mention the fact that they would be powerless to stop 70 million Turks coming here if they wanted to thanks to EU laws once Turkey joins the European Union. The Labour Party promised us a referendum on the reform of the European Union back in 2005 and lied. The Conservatives promised a referendum on the reform; guranteed that it was not passed by the time that they had gained office, they knew it would of passed before they gained the keys to number 10 and thus another spin trick from a main political party.

Nothing is being hyped up, why do you think the Lib/Lab/Con three are so eager not to debate the EU and immigration/border controls? - because it makes them look bad so what they do (as shown by Brown today) is they make false pledges which as Lord Pearson has again stated in an interview conducted yesterday (see below) about things which are out of their control such as the issue of the uncontrolled immigration from the European Union which you can call the 'backdoor to Britain'. It is really ironic that after 13 years in office, Gordon Brown now pledges to be tough on immigration just weeks away from the General Election and more fool you for falling for it.

The two main issues in this election are considered to be the economy and immigration, immigration is an issue and is turning some of our inner cities into racial ghettos in which we are storing up enormous social and political problems for the future in. France did the same and a few years back they actually had race riots, Britain will go the same way if this is allowed to continue. Infact many 3rd and 4th generation migrants who settled here in the days of the Empire are now saying that enough is enough, this is totally out of control. The figures speak for themselves, just under one million people here and we dont know who they are or where they are - I find that scary.

The issues of immigration, border controls and the economy (and effects of immigration on the state & economy) are inseperable from the European issue.

.

[Catzsy]

Sorry, Dan I do not want to debate this subject with you as it just turns into a never ending arguement where things are continually repeated which is why I quoted Jrh and MissAlice.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Sorry, Dan I do not want to debate this subject with you as it just turns into a never ending arguement where things are continually repeated which is why I quoted Jrh and MissAlice.

I am sorry but that does not wash, in response to Alice's post you make it out as though its only the right and the papers who are peddling some sort of myth about the crisis we are facing concerning immigration and the issues surrounding it, that I am afraid is totally and utterly wrong. You yourself in your reply show in many areas where they can milk the taxpayer dry and you word it as though its not a big issue and costs the taxpayer very little, utterly wrong again I am afraid. Not knowing where or who one million people are within these shores is not an example of Labour being hard hitting or tough, its an example of dithering and more so the sign of a utterly pathetic and uncaring government who quite frankly appear as though they could not give a toss until its election time which has only been proven futher by Gordon Brown implying that UKIP, the BNP and the Conservatives are xenophobic just because of the simple fact that they all (UKIP & BNP at least) want some control over our borders.

It is not that our debates 'go on forever' it is because you refuse to awknowledge that this government can possibly be in the wrong at all and i'm just being the nasty little evil right winger against everything that Saint Gordy or the Holy Labour Party do or say, i'm sure if you debated this issue with Alice and Jrh and if Alice or Jrh keep responding then the replies from yourself will turn into "well I have my opinion you have yours, end of matter". You hint at UKIP for one as being 'hysterical' on the issue, well if you think that is the case you should be able to defend that and back it up, because as I have pointed out quite clearly and what Lord Pearson shows; we are not being hysterical we are being realistic.

There is very little to repeat here as you yourself have given example of how they can bleed the taxpayer dry when they are totally undeserving of taxpayer money and help, so where is this 'hysterical' bit you mention coming into play(?) because I certainly cannot spot it.

[Hitman]

It's stupid when the "thousands of Brits are in Spain" card is pulled out. Firstly, I would say nearly every British person in Spain has money. You do not go to Spain if you have no money or if you are looking for benefits (I'll come onto this next). You must have some money, even if it's a small amount. A lot of Brits in Spain are either rich and not working, or they are average and working (thus contributing to the Spanish economy).

In Spain they don't hand out benefits willy nilly: in fact, I don't think us Brits can get Spanish benefits... heck I don't know if Spain even has a benefits system! I never ever knew of any British people on benefits when I was in Spain. Maybe they were on British benefits but not Spanish ones.

So if you want to pull that card out think again. I would say 98% of the British living in Spain are contributing to the Spanish economy by either taking money to Spain or working in Spain - they spend what they earn in Spain and pay their Spanish taxes.

On the other hand, the immigrants coming into the UK tend to have no money. Many bring their families and claim benefits from them and live off of benefits. Some do work, but they send the money back to their home country (many Polish do this for example). They don't spend what they earn in the UK, they take it out of our economy.

I would love to write more but I am really busy with business matters.

[alexxxxx]

It's stupid when the "thousands of Brits are in Spain" card is pulled out. Firstly, I would say nearly every British person in Spain has money. You do not go to Spain if you have no money or if you are looking for benefits (I'll come onto this next). You must have some money, even if it's a small amount. A lot of Brits in Spain are either rich and not working, or they are average and working (thus contributing to the Spanish economy).

most brits in spain are retired or resident for part of the year.

In Spain they don't hand out benefits willy nilly: in fact, I don't think us Brits can get Spanish benefits... heck I don't know if Spain even has a benefits system! I never ever knew of any British people on benefits when I was in Spain. Maybe they were on British benefits but not Spanish ones.

can you give me some evidence that spain 'doesn't give out benefits willy nilly' - of course they have a benefits system, every western country has one, including spain who have unemployment. and british people claiming benefits in britain does happen - and it's illegal afaik.

So if you want to pull that card out think again. I would say 98% of the British living in Spain are contributing to the Spanish economy by either taking money to Spain or working in Spain - they spend what they earn in Spain and pay their Spanish taxes.

On the other hand, the immigrants coming into the UK tend to have no money. Many bring their families and claim benefits from them and live off of benefits. Some do work, but they send the money back to their home country (many Polish do this for example). They don't spend what they earn in the UK, they take it out of our economy.

have you maybe thought that that happens in england too? 'Immigrants to the UK tend to have no money' - what rubbish. You ever heard of the THOUSANDS of students that come here and effectively top-up british people's university fees or the other thousands that live and work in the city of london or generally hold down jobs. What rubbish. In Spain they have a lot of people who come from south america looking for work and illegal immigrants from north africa. They send money home.

and undertaker you must be completely unaware about how people from outside the EU become 'immigruntz' because a VISA/Work Permit is always required. there is no sort of visa-less immigrant apart from an illegal immigrant.