Conservatives in crisis as they are overtaken by UKIP in crucial by-election

[GommeInc]

Surely that would boost UKIP votes, as UKIP would be advertised more?

Should do, but then you have the people who only go by names, so some people might of noted down her name and voted for that rather than the party. Quite impressive though, UKIP did surprisingly well given the change from the 2010 election.

[Chippiewill]

People voting against the in-government party? Real shocker there.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I stand by what I say, the moment Farage gets in to any position of power, I will leave the country.

I know, I mean just imagine a government headed by a man who has had a real job and which introduced proper immigration controls, started to get spending under control, left the EU and negotiated a free trade agreement (FTA), reintroduced the grammar schools in poorer areas... it'd be hell on Earth. I'm so glad we've got people like David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband who are principled & who really know what they are doing.

People voting against the in-government party? Real shocker there.

The Conservatives can keep telling themselves that and that it's a fluke that will wither away by tommorow; just as they did in the 1999 European Elections, the 2004 European Elections and the 2009 European Elections, the 2010 General Election and the 2012 Local Elections.

On the rise: Support for UKIP in Commons by-elections has soared since the Coalition was formed, rising from 5.8 per cent in Oldham and Saddleworth in January 2011 to 27.8 per cent in Eastleigh

[AgnesIO]

I know, I mean just imagine a government headed by a man who has had a real job and which introduced proper immigration controls, started to get spending under control, left the EU and negotiated a free trade agreement (FTA), reintroduced the grammar schools in poorer areas... it'd be hell on Earth. I'm so glad we've got people like David Cameron, Nick Clegg and Ed Miliband who are principled & who really know what they are doing.



The Conservatives can keep telling themselves that and that it's a fluke that will wither away by tommorow; just as they did in the 1999 European Elections, the 2004 European Elections and the 2009 European Elections, the 2010 General Election and the 2012 Local Elections.

Farage always looks so smug, it just makes me despise him! I am not apparently as concerned about immigration as yourself - whilst I think it should be tightened, I think Farage wants to go too far. I hate to say it, but the EU won't just let Farage stroll out of it, and then get the best part of it back (eg. FTA). On grammar schools, sure bring them to poorer areas. But that only works if the standards don't drop at all (admittedly my knowledge on grammar schools in poor areas isn't great - they are around me, but I don't really know what poor areas are in England, when looking at the grammar school situation that is haha).

Whilst I am Conservative, I obviously dislike Cameron like most other Conservatives. I dislike Clegg (hey look at my signature), and Miliband - he hasn't had a chance to mess up yet. I just think that none of the above can really do anything that drastic - they are all too weak.

Farage on the other hand, in my eyes, would love to do it Gove style and change everything he possibly can.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Ah delightful, the reply is much appreciated. +rep

I don't want a long debate either if you think i'm trying to drag you into one, just a quick back-and forth!

Farage always looks so smug, it just makes me despise him! I am not apparently as concerned about immigration as yourself - whilst I think it should be tightened, I think Farage wants to go too far.

That's strange aha, most people even those who disagree with him quite like his down to earth personality, the type of guy to have a pint with.

And where in your mind does Farage go too far in wanting to change immigration? I mean, do you even know the UKIP policy on immigration? (without looking it up) - just a fair question i'm interested to know the answer of, and if so what parts of that policy are worse than the policy we have today?

I hate to say it, but the EU won't just let Farage stroll out of it, and then get the best part of it back (eg. FTA).

On what evidence are you basing this on? have you read Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty and come to this conclusion? if so, you would know that nobody is suggesting we 'stroll out of it' - because we have to leave legally and in a sensible manner.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Europea...ade_agreements

Give me one reason why countries such as Argentina, Egypt, Oman and Saudi Arabia can have a FTA with the EU but we, one of their biggest trading partners and a country which is the financial capital of the world, cannot.

On grammar schools, sure bring them to poorer areas. But that only works if the standards don't drop at all (admittedly my knowledge on grammar schools in poor areas isn't great - they are around me, but I don't really know what poor areas are in England, when looking at the grammar school situation that is haha).

Well I didn't exactly come from a very poor area, but the areas I know and live in/around are classed as deprived (Liverpool Walton, Bootle, Anfield, Fazakerly) and I know from my own experience at school at a state comprehensive that it let down the cleverer kids who I remember watching sitting there, completely bored out of their wits because they were miles ahead of the class.

The reason social mobility has been declining since the grammar were abolished in the 1960s? the answer is in the question.

Whilst I am Conservative, I obviously dislike Cameron like most other Conservatives. I dislike Clegg (hey look at my signature), and Miliband - he hasn't had a chance to mess up yet. I just think that none of the above can really do anything that drastic - they are all too weak.

Farage on the other hand, in my eyes, would love to do it Gove style and change everything he possibly can.

But you've just said Cameron, Miliband and Clegg can't do anything too drastic because of their weakness.. and then gone on to blast the two people who you think would bring change? :S I don't understand.

[Chippiewill]

The Conservatives can keep telling themselves that and that it's a fluke that will wither away by tommorow;

They can because it's true, it applies to every party which is in government, most of the people voting for UKIP are doing it to make the conservatives listen to them.

[-:Undertaker:-]

They can because it's true, it applies to every party which is in government, most of the people voting for UKIP are doing it to make the conservatives listen to them.

Oh indeed, but it's now coming almost equally from Labour, the Liberal Democrats and people who never even vote now. But to go back to that point, thats exactly my point. If the main three political parties listened to their supporters and the people of this country, whether its on crime/immigration/the European Union/the debt - then UKIP wouldn't need to exist.

I can't see them listening anytime soon, if ever - but the Tories especially should keep this history lesson in mind.

[Chippiewill]

If the main three political parties listened to their supporters and the people of this country, whether its on crime/immigration/the European Union/the debt - then UKIP wouldn't need to exist.

It's difficult to please everyone.

[-:Undertaker:-]

It's difficult to please everyone.

It is, which is why we ought to have some proper debate in this country.

If the Conservatives, Liberal Democrats and Labour want uncontrolled mass migration, if they support ceding more powers to the European Union, if they support a continuous rise in state spending, if they fully back the comprehensive education system, if they want tuition fees' to rise - then by all means, let them argue for it. But they never ever do because at election time, they switch to UKIP type messages.

The majority of people want our laws made here and not in Brussels, want a sensible and controlled immigration policy & sensible spending. Thats all.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Sorry, just seen this.

Since when did UKIP have a stronghold?

Areas like the North East of England and East Anglia where UKIP polls much higher than its national average, as well as areas which scored above the national average (3.2%) in the 2010 General Election - of which Eastleigh isn't, the 2010 Eastleigh result was very much in line with the national average back then.