Brussels too big and too bossy, Cameron tells EU leaders

[GommeInc]

He also said in that same speech "If we don't like how Europe is, change it" which means reform, another choice Dan missed out from his original post. It isn't either a Federal Europe or out of the EU, so i'm not sure what you're really arguing. You can hypothesise all you want about the EU's intentions, but again, ever closer union is extremely vague and could mean many different things, to pretend it means to federalise europe is nothing more than conjecture.

Reform technically isn't allowed within the EU, or at least any system that will allow it - change can only come from those who think it should happen and so far the ones in charge of the operation, the ones actually not elected, are more interested in further integration e.g. an EU army, one single currency, a single intelligence agency etc. I think the Lisbon Treaty mentions something about how strict the institution is with change - seeing as the goal is "further integration" and analysts have stated that people do not want further integration going from the recent results. Further integration could also be read as "until total integration has been accomplished" seeing as the wording doesn't say when further integration stops.

Completely valid point though, it's so vague that constitutionally the EU doesn't strictly express a federal Europe, but the people in charge seem all for it - although they seem to keep changing their minds...

[-:Undertaker:-]

He also said in that same speech "If we don't like how Europe is, change it" which means reform, another choice Dan missed out from his original post. It isn't either a Federal Europe or out of the EU, so i'm not sure what you're really arguing. You can hypothesise all you want about the EU's intentions, but again, ever closer union is extremely vague and could mean many different things, to pretend it means to federalise europe is nothing more than conjecture.

But Barroso isn't talking about less Europe, he's talking about more Europe as the treaties and the whole project is based upon. There is a debate within the top circles of the European Union of whether to go for a United States of Europe model (a federal model) or a unitary model. There is not and isn't intended to be a debate on whether nation states should reclaim powers, or whether closer integration should actually go ahead as seen with the results of the French, Dutch and Irish referendums which were simply ignored just as these election results are being ignored.

Ever closer union means exactly what it says, ever closer union aka more powers keep going to the centre. Period, end of story. The European Union doesn't have a clutch to stall the project, or a reversal button: from it's inception it has been very clear in what the end goal is.

but again, ever closer union is extremely vague

The EU from the beginning is intended to be vague and boring, it's based on the 'Monnet method' (named after the founder of the project). I'm off out to get a haircut right now, but i'll post some quotes from Monnet & other founders if you would like which express this intention as clearly as day.

[The Don]

Reform technically isn't allowed within the EU, or at least any system that will allow it - change can only come from those who think it should happen and so far the ones in charge of the operation, the ones actually not elected, are more interested in further integration e.g. an EU army, one single currency, a single intelligence agency etc. I think the Lisbon Treaty mentions something about how strict the institution is with change - seeing as the goal is "further integration" and analysts have stated that people do not want further integration going from the recent results. Further integration could also be read as "until total integration has been accomplished" seeing as the wording doesn't say when further integration stops.

Completely valid point though, it's so vague that constitutionally the EU doesn't strictly express a federal Europe, but the people in charge seem all for it - although they seem to keep changing their minds...

The European Commission can reform EU policy, so reform is possible. Are there more options than federal europe or a withdrawal from the EU? If the answer is yes (which it is...) then there's nothing more here to discuss.

[GommeInc]

The European Commission can reform EU policy, so reform is possible. Are there more options than federal europe or a withdrawal from the EU? If the answer is yes (which it is...) then there's nothing more here to discuss.

Well no it's not that clean cut. They can, but will they? The Commission have in the past reiterated the importance of a greater integrated Europe.