Best/cheapest place to buy Win 8.1?

[Firehorse]

Skype desktop was never removed... it has always been available. Wrong. http://community.skype.com/t5/Modern...n/td-p/1160382 the desktop version was not originally available for W8, only the "app"

Most users only use a few core programs, which are in their start bar. It is no harder than the start menu. Things can be pinned, this isn't permanently circumnavigating tiles. Start menu has still been replaced. Essentially the same example as using desktop shortcuts.

Glad you agree. It is faster. Marginally. Use an SSD on both and you won't even notice the difference.

There are more automatically enabled security things on W8. Therefore, the security is better. Sorry. W8 is still not free of viruses. If you manage your security well and avoid dodgy downloads then there is relatively no difference, W7 is still fully supported by Microsoft and receives security patches on a weekly basis.

And brilliant idea. Because it worked 20 years ago, changing it is wrong. Let's all walk everywhere, because it worked perfectly well before the bike, car, train and aeroplane. New does NOT equal better. The start menu was a tool that worked as part of the desktop, it wasn't an entirely different application. Oh, and guess what? The vast majority seem to agree. Look at Windows 10, start menu has made a reappearance. And while you're trying to make this point, why don't we change keyboards so they're all alphebetical? After all they're only qwerty thanks to the physical limitations of typewriters, so why not change all keyboards to ABCDEF? Because A) It's a standard hundreds of millions are used to and B) Changing it, like the change made from W7 to W8, doesn't actually improve the final outcome of using a keyboard, it just annoys the users in the process and wastes resources. If anything it would severely reduce productivity.

The car was a solution to a problem, not being able to get places quickly enough (plus other factors). The train solved the same problem on a bigger scale and the plane even more so. Replacing the start menu with tiles is not a solution to a problem. Ever heard the saying "If it ain't broke don't fix it"? Also, everything is relative: you don't use a plane to commute 5 miles to work; it would be faster, but unnecessary. Please do explain how tiles offer any functionality over the start menu.

A store is virtually essential if they want to make it a cross-platform OS. Fine in theory, but Windows RT was a failure, Windows Phone isn't doing great either. It is understandable why they would have it, but it is removed from their proven strategy, and it hasn't exactly caught on. People who like cut-down, limiting, integrated software buy Macs (which has software that "just works" so they say). Windows has always been targeted at businesses and people who want to be able to know how something works so they can fix it if it goes wrong. In business, changing something that is a core standard is very costly. Windows Vista to Windows 7 requires no staff training because everything is in the same place for the end user, but change from Windows 7 to Windows 8 and everybody becomes completely lost.

See bold.

[Firehorse]

You evidently haven't even tried it.

Also, just to respond to your comment stating I "evidently haven't even tried it". Windows 8 came with a laptop I purchased approximately 2 years ago. It works well with the touchscreen, but other than that it is just terrible in comparison to Windows 7. W8 is just an inconvenient truth, I put up with it when I need to, and use W7 when I have the choice.

[AgnesIO]

See bold.

The Skype for Windows 8 version was designed to be full screen, yes. Skype has always been available as a desktop version on Windows 8, the fact you clearly have never tried to install it is down to your own stupidity, not Windows 8.

So what is it about the old start menu that you miss so much? I think they have got the right mix with Windows 10, but Windows 8 isn't lacking in features...

You talk about the 'average user' not understanding Windows 8, and then go on to argue load times are the same time on 7 and 8 when using an SSD. I mean, because obviously the 'average user' installs an SSD into their computer :rolleyes:

I didn't say Windows 8 was free from viruses. The fact you even mentioned that is laughable.

In Windows 8.1, you access the start menu exactly the same way as you do in 7. There is nothing to be confused about. Microsoft did maybe go too far, too quickly - I reckon if they did the Windows 10 version for W8, they could have then put the Windows 8 style in W10. Learning a new keyboard style is like learning a new language. Slightly different to learning how to move your mouse to the top right hand corner of the screen. Also, changing the keyboard layout almost certainly would improve typing speeds, albeit only for new users of it - but as I say, it is a far more drastic change than W8 is...

Tiles offer far better touch functionality. Wow, that was a difficult question. Please, do ask more...

"if it ain't broke, don't fix it" is a completely ridiculous saying, and one I wish people would abandon. That attitude removes vasts amount of innovation. My laptop works well. Maybe we should not bother making improvements, as the current one works fine. Ludicrous.

Also, just to respond to your comment stating I "evidently haven't even tried it". Windows 8 came with a laptop I purchased approximately 2 years ago. It works well with the touchscreen, but other than that it is just terrible in comparison to Windows 7. W8 is just an inconvenient truth, I put up with it when I need to, and use W7 when I have the choice.

8.1 brings many improvements on 8. You tried a version that did have flaws, many of the flaws were then improved. You haven't tried it.

[peteyt]

The problem with windows 8 isn't that it's bad, it's just the fact people don't like change. I didn't like the idea of the start menu being removed and it was weird at first but then after using the metro start screen for a while, I learned something important. The Metro start screen is the start menu.

That's right - the metro start screen is the start menu, it does everything the start menu does but a lot more. It just has been updated, works a little different and looks a bit different. I can Hit my start key on my keyboard and start typing something like I could in windows 7 and find it quickly - I can even choose between settings, files, programs etc to help my search something windows 7 didn't offer. If you don't like the metro apps just don't use them.

Windows 8 admittingly did forget about the desktop users originally but this has been fixed. For example they hid the power options e.g. shutdown, restart but with the latest updates this is easily seen with also a setting and search icon. You can now see the x to close in metro apps to making it easier to close on a non touch screen device.

Windows 10 is going to go a step further and re-add the start menu, slightly re-designed to fit with the metro image. The new os will work on multiple devices and I think if it's done correctly will be a massive step forward. From windows 10 onwards windows will adapt to your device e.g. desktop user with keyboard and mouse will see a start menu by default. I also like the fact you'll be able to have multiple desktops and be able to switch between each one without the need of other software.

It's important to note that windows 8's bad launch is nothing in my personal opinion on windows vista's launch. Vista changed a lot and many programs became incompatible with many big names being incompatible for years. I've not had this issue with windows 8. I believe windows 10 will be like 7 was to vista and a big success. It's important to note that even though nothing is secure, windows 10 appears to be a lot more secure than windows 7 and will obviously have a longer support period