JCB company owner and chief executive both back British exit from the EU

[The Don]

Aye, often we project ourselves onto other people.



Because you cannot argue, I guess you'll just have to keep on parroting the discredited claims of Nissan and Toyota then.

I don't need to argue your silly hypothetical situation that's got zero chance of happening. Calling Nissan and Toyotas claims 'discredited' because you disagree with them really highlights your disingenuous 'debating' techniques.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I don't need to argue your silly hypothetical situation that's got zero chance of happening. Calling Nissan and Toyotas claims as 'discredited' because you disagree with them really highlights your disingenuous 'debating' techniques.

I'm calling them discredited because they are discredited.

They told us to join the Euro or face economic ruin. They were not only wrong, but as wrong as you could possibly be.

If we were on this forum 15 years ago arguing right now, both you and fellow travellers like @conservative; among others would be arguing with me over and over again telling me that it's in Britain's best interests to join the Euro and that I was being 'narrow minded' or 'nationalist' or 'isolationist' because I was arguing it would be dangerous to surrender control of our currency and join a disparate currency bloc. On top of that, you'd be burying me in 'da facts about jerbs' quoting Nissan, Toyota and Nissan telling me that if we don't join then the sky would fall in.

As I said earlier, thank ******* christ we didn't listen to you shower of clowns.

[The Don]

I'm calling them discredited because they are discredited.

They told us to join the Euro or face economic ruin. They were not only wrong, but as wrong as you could possibly be.

If we were on this forum 15 years ago arguing right now, both you and fellow travellers like @conservative; among others would be arguing with me over and over again telling me that it's in Britain's best interests to join the Euro and that I was being 'narrow minded' or 'nationalist' or 'isolationist' because I was arguing it would be dangerous to surrender control of our currency and join a disparate currency bloc. On top of that, you'd be burying me in 'da facts about jerbs' quoting Nissan, Toyota and Nissan telling me that if we don't join then the sky would fall in.

As I said earlier, thank ******* christ we didn't listen to you shower of clowns.

Unfortunately for you, Dan, being wrong on one issue in the past doesn't automatically make you wrong on everything else in the future. In the real world when we call something discredited it's because there's some sort of issue with their argument, not because they thought 1+1 = 3 back in nursery. There's so many holes in your argument it's actually embarrassing.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Unfortunately for you, Dan, being wrong on one issue in the past doesn't automatically make you wrong on everything else in the future. In the real world when we call something discredited it's because there's some sort of issue with their argument, not because they thought 1+1 = 3 back in nursery. There's so many holes in your argument it's actually embarrassing.

Well actually it does. If a Chancellor had taken us into the Euro do you think he would be a source of economic wisdom? He'd be seen rightly as a joke.

The amazing thing is that your side doesn't have more shame about how wrong it was and is. If I had a record as appalling and so wrong like your side does on this, then I would bury myself out of the sheer shame. You lot need to learn some humility rather than this pig-headedness of "I'm right cos Nissan said so and JCB sux" which isn't actually backed up by anything factual what so ever. Quoting people who were 150 degrees wrong on something makes you look really silly.

The EU is forbidden from imposing high tariffs under the WTO, so why would trade cease or suffer?

[The Don]

Well actually it does. If a Chancellor had taken us into the Euro do you think he would be a source of economic wisdom? He'd be seen rightly as a joke.

The amazing thing is that your side doesn't have more shame about how wrong it was and is. If I had a record as appalling and so wrong like your side does on this, then I would bury myself out of the sheer shame. You lot need to learn some humility rather than this pig-headedness of "I'm right cos Nissan said so and JCB sux" which isn't actually backed up by anything factual what so ever.

The EU is forbidden from imposing high tariffs under the WTO, so why would trade cease or suffer?

If a chancellor took us into the Euro and then a decade later said 2+2 = 4 he wouldn’t suddenly be incorrect. I’m amazed that you think that’s an acceptable argument to make. It’s impossible to debate with someone so illogical.

[GommeInc]

JCB are a bit of an isolated example. They wouldn't really suffer either way. Other companies on the other hand will be affected while some industries, arguably farming, will benefit out of it.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If a chancellor took us into the Euro and then a decade later said 2+2 = 4 he wouldn’t suddenly be incorrect. I’m amazed that you think that’s an acceptable argument to make. It’s impossible to debate with someone so illogical.

Well yes it is, it's the same economic principle. You are arguing, like they did for the Euro, that being away from a larger European bloc means somehow that we lose out and that companies will leave - but without saying why. As in the case of the Euro currency, not only were you wrong that companies would leave but you were also extra wrong by the fact that the Euro proved to be an economic disaster: yet had 'isolationists' (that meaningless phrase you love to throw) like my side in Business for Sterling been ignored, then look where we would be. And it's the same now by your assertions and predictions of disaster. Why?

And again you dodged my point on the WTO and tariffs. Where is the evidence - other than your belief - that trade would cease or suffer?

JCB are a bit of an isolated example. They wouldn't really suffer either way. Other companies on the other hand will be affected while some industries, arguably farming, will benefit out of it.

The only companies though that will 'suffer' will be the likes of the larger corporations who like the easy lobbying that the European Union provides. I don't like large corporations lobbying though, as they use it purely to propose legislation and regulations that keep out competitors. A monopoly by law essentially.

[Earthquake]

a little too late, would have been a massive boost for the UKIPs election campaign.

[The Don]

Well yes it is, it's the same economic principle. You are arguing, like they did for the Euro, that being away from a larger European bloc means somehow that we lose out and that companies will leave - but without saying why. As in the case of the Euro currency, not only were you wrong that companies would leave but you were also extra wrong by the fact that the Euro proved to be an economic disaster: yet had 'isolationists' (that meaningless phrase you love to throw) like my side in Business for Sterling been ignored, then look where we would be. And it's the same now by your assertions and predictions of disaster. Why?

And again you dodged my point on the WTO and tariffs. Where is the evidence - other than your belief - that trade would cease or suffer?



The only companies though that will 'suffer' will be the likes of the larger corporations who like the easy lobbying that the European Union provides. I don't like large corporations lobbying though, as they use it purely to propose legislation and regulations that keep out competitors. A monopoly by law essentially.

No I am not arguing that and I haven't said any of that here so don't try and shift the discussion like you always do. It is a fact that a wide variety of businesses and entrepreneurs have publicly said it would be bad to leave the EU and they are very much in the majority.

[GommeInc]

The only companies though that will 'suffer' will be the likes of the larger corporations who like the easy lobbying that the European Union provides. I don't like large corporations lobbying though, as they use it purely to propose legislation and regulations that keep out competitors. A monopoly by law essentially.

EU law has made it harder for monopolies to exist as of Article 101 and 102. Technically EU law has stopped larger conglomerates and monopolies from abusing their position politically and economically. If we left, larger organisations will have a stronger say politically, but economically they benefit from the lack of taxation, quotas, custom duties etc. So I am not sure why you think being in the EU gives these larger corporations an "easy lobbying" platform, when evidently they do not. Take Google or Amazon, both find it hard to speak and control governments because the EU wants to ensure they're on a tight leash! It's one area of EU law which works surprisingly well.