Family "tortured and killed" man

[Black_Apalachi]

Wait, why was he given an Xbox? Do they have TVs (and electricity) in their cells? :eusa_eh:

[-:Undertaker:-]

Wait, why was he given an Xbox? Do they have TVs (and electricity) in their cells? :eusa_eh:

Yes, and they have quite a lot actually and we even have open prisons nowadays which to me and any other person with common sense utterly defeats the object of prison. To a lot of people who commit crime nowadays, prison is actually better than life on the outside;- they are virtually safe, are fed and clothed and have all the lavishes of life that a lot of them never had outside of prison.

[Catzsy]

I did not state 10 years for Ian Huntley.

As for 40 years being a lifetime, yes it may seem a lifetime to him but it wont seem a lifetime to the family of Jessica and Holly who, if they had lived to 40 years would most likely be settling down and having children at that age. You call me extreme but I find it quite extreme that you seem to be perfectly content with a man like Ian Huntley being allowed to walk free again. I wonder what the parents of murdered kids would make of that suggestion?

To answer your question, it depends on the case. If it is solid evidence and the killer has killed somebody in cold blood, then yes and lets put the issue to a referendum so the British people can decide, not the politicians. In other words; democracy.

This is what you said:

Well its far better than them sitting in prison on their Xboxes [Ian Huntley] in their cushy cells and being let out a mere 10 or so years later for 'good behaviour'

It reads like you are referring to Ian Huntley to me.

Where have I said that I am content that Ian Huntley should be released?
Putting words in my mouth again I don't think he should ever be released.

However, in my view as far as capital punishment is concerned, two wrongs do not make a right but more importantly you cannot bring an innocent person back from the grave.

All these people were convicted of murder on 'solid evidence' at the time. Some spent over 20 years in jail. All had their convictions quashed on appeal.

Birmingham Six
Stefan Kiszko
Anthony Steel
John Kamara
Sean Hodgson
Cousins Vincent and Michael Hickey
Michael O'Brien
Gordon Park
Robert Brown
Winston Silcott
Ellis Sherwood
Anthony Steel
Paul Blackburn
Angela Cannings
Sally Clark
This is just the tip of the iceberg - there are many, many more.

[-:Undertaker:-]

This is what you said:

It reads like you are referring to Ian Huntley to me.

Well no, I was saying Ian Huntley had an Xbox not that he got 10 years otherwise i'd of put the brackets with his name in after I mentioned both.

Where have I said that I am content that Ian Huntley should be released? Putting words in my mouth again I don't think he should ever be released.

"40 years could be a lifetime for him and there is not much chance of him being released then" - by that, you seem pretty fine with him only getting 40 years and being eligable for release after 40 years which suggests to me that you seem pretty content with that.

However, in my view as far as capital punishment is concerned, two wrongs do not make a right but more importantly you cannot bring an innocent person back from the grave.

Two wrongs do make a right, you murder someone you should expect your life to be taken away by a court of justice as you forfeitted your right to life when you took another. By the logic of two wrongs dont make a right, we shouldnt punish anybody at all because then we are just as bad as them.

All these people were convicted of murder on 'solid evidence' at the time. Some spent over 20 years in jail. All had their convictions quashed on appeal.

Birmingham Six
Stefan Kiszko
Anthony Steel
John Kamara
Sean Hodgson
Cousins Vincent and Michael Hickey
Michael O'Brien
Gordon Park
Robert Brown
Winston Silcott
Ellis Sherwood
Anthony Steel
Paul Blackburn
Angela Cannings
Sally Clark
This is just the tip of the iceberg - there are many, many more.

Well we'd have to set up a body to scan over all this if anything like this did occur, we now have DNA and it'd be interesting to see if those cases were used with solid DNA. The fact of the matter is, this case; we know for definite that these people killed this man and we know Ian Huntley killed Jessica and Holly for sure, so lets make them face justice.

As I know the majority of the British people support the death penalty it is infact you who holds the 'extreme' view, not myself.

[Catzsy]

Well no, I was saying Ian Huntley had an Xbox not that he got 10 years otherwise i'd of put the brackets with his name in after I mentioned both.

Okay well as I said I read it that way

"40 years could be a lifetime for him and there is not much chance of him being released then" - by that, you seem pretty fine with him only getting 40 years and being eligable for release after 40 years which suggests to me that you seem pretty content with that.

Where on earth do you get the logic for that comment - I am fine that he is behind bars with very little prospect of ever being released. The general consensus is that he will only come out of prison in a coffin.

Two wrongs do make a right, you murder someone you should expect your life to be taken away by a court of justice as you forfeitted your right to life when you took another. By the logic of two wrongs dont make a right, we shouldnt punish anybody at all because then we are just as bad as them.

Punishment is their incarsaration. That is the law of the land in the United Kingdom at the moment whether you agree or not.

Well we'd have to set up a body to scan over all this if anything like this did occur, we now have DNA and it'd be interesting to see if those cases were used with solid DNA. The fact of the matter is, this case; we know for definite that these people killed this man and we know Ian Huntley killed Jessica and Holly for sure, so lets make them face justice.

As I know the majority of the British people support the death penatly it is infact you who holds the 'extreme' view, not myself.

Well two of them were very recent and were convicted of murdering their babies so under your new proposals they would be dead by now.

Surveys differ from organisation to organisation as to the support of capital punishment and those pro it usually have surveys done after a high profile murder - I have no problem with a referendum as long as both sides of the argument are put. I do not think it would be as clear cut as you believe.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Where on earth do you get the logic for that comment - I am fine that he is behind bars with very little prospect of ever being released. The general consensus is that he will only come out of prison in a coffin.

I wouldn't put it past this government, we've had early release schemes introduced and a whole manner of evil crazed people let off the hook. 40 years is not enough, life should mean life at least.

Punishment is their incarsaration. That is the law of the land in the United Kingdom at the moment whether you agree or not.

Of course its law, but the fact is that prison is not prison anymore and theres still room for the death penalty in my eyes and the eyes of the majority of this country. We elect our MPs to represent our views, its time they got to work and did that.

Well two of them were very recent and were convicted of murdering their babies so under your new proposals they would be dead by now.

The baby cases;- very dodgy/are they the cot death cases or something similar? - I mean cold blooded ones, cases where there is without a doubt the man/woman did it like for example if I stood on a roof in the middle of Liverpool and started gunning everyone down I could see infront of me.

Surveys differ from organisation to organisation as to the support of capital punishment and those pro it usually have surveys done after a high profile murder - I have no problem with a referendum as long as both sides of the argument are put. I do not think it would be as clear cut as you believe.

They have been consistent in the view that the figure usually stays around the 60% mark which would mean the likelyhood is that it would pass unless something dramatic occured. And good, because the people should decide and not the politicians. We could go on all night whether its right or not, its morals and it comes down to them. Give the people a vote and its fair and square, democracy in action.

[Catzsy]

I wouldn't put it past this government, we've had early release schemes introduced and a whole manner of evil crazed people let off the hook. 40 years is not enough, life should mean life at least.



Of course its law, but the fact is that prison is not prison anymore and theres still room for the death penalty in my eyes and the eyes of the majority of this country. We elect our MPs to represent our views, its time they got to work and did that.



The baby cases;- very dodgy/are they the cot death cases or something similar? - I mean cold blooded ones, cases where there is without a doubt the man/woman did it like for example if I stood on a roof in the middle of Liverpool and started gunning everyone down I could see infront of me.



They have been consistent in the view that the figure usually stays around the 60% mark which would mean the likelyhood is that it would pass unless something dramatic occured. And good, because the people should decide and not the politicians. We could go on all night whether its right or not, its morals and it comes down to them. Give the people a vote and its fair and square, democracy in action.

Well it's not that these people do not disgust me but I would say Prison may be worse than capital punishment - Huntley has tried to commit suicide 3 time but in any event I do not believe in it and I have a right to my opinion.
Surveys have varied over the years dropping to below 50% in 2005 but yes support is rising again as you say. Personally I think when people actually vote, if they cba, of course then it would be a different story. If a government brought back CP I would feel the country had gone back in time 200 years.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Well it's not that these people do not disgust me but I would say Prison may be worse than capital punishment - Huntley has tried to commit suicide 3 time but in any event I do not believe in it and I have a right to my opinion.
Surveys have varied over the years dropping to below 50% in 2005 but yes support is rising again as you say. Personally I think when people actually vote, if they cba, of course then it would be a different story. If a government brought back CP I would feel the country had gone back in time 200 years.

If going back in time means scum like Huntley dies rather than sits in prison on his Xbox (aka not prison, a holiday camp) then 'going back 200 years' will be worth it. The 'modern world' represents and supports the criminal, not the victim and it should not be like that.

Do you agree that prison should be made like a prison again?

[Catzsy]

If going back in time means scum like Huntley dies rather than sits in prison on his Xbox (aka not prison, a holiday camp) then 'going back 200 years' will be worth it. The 'modern world' represents and supports the criminal, not the victim and it should not be like that.

Do you agree that prison should be made like a prison again?

Incredibly subjective argument. When was prison, prison in your opinion?

[Black_Apalachi]

While they get their luxuries and protection, do they also have protection from each other? I mean we read recently about Baby P's abuser who had boiling water thrown over him and as Rosie says, Huntley has attempted suicide multiple times which suggests he is being hassled a lot in prison (as is expected for anyone in there for harming kids).