Muslim community leader who lied about BNP kidnap is illegal immigrant

[-:Undertaker:-]

it's not sexism, it's affirmative action, positive discrimination. yes, it's highly criticised but has both it's pros and cons. the bnp are racist 'cos they don't like ethnic minorities in our country, which is completely different? :S

i just get sick and tired of having debates with you when you're so hellbent on reppin' ukip 24/7. you like to see yourself as somebody who is fair and democratic, when really you just want to make ukip look as good as possible. thus, i end up winding you up for my own amusement.

Hang on, so its ok because its got a different name coined by the Labour Party into making people such as yourself believe its perfectly fine? So its fairly alright to discriminate against white straight men but not the other way around, well heres news for you - neither way is fine and for you or the party you support to call the BNP names like racist, homophobic or sexist is the height of hypocrisy, it really is but I doubt it'll make much of an impression on you - this is where the tribal idea for Labour comes from, because i've never actually met anybody who supports Labour who stands their ground whilst sticking to their morals and who has some sort of common sense-consistency in their views.

UKIP on the other hand has nothing (sod all, jack all) to do with this debate, we were going along quite fine without them being mentioned but you had to go and spoil it didnt you darling, although next I guess we'll have Rosie complaining that I bring UKIP up too often.

If you discriminate against sex, you are sexist.
If you discriminate against race, you are a racist.

Why does this only apply to Nick Griffin and the British National Party?

I want to know why Nick Griffin and his lot are any different to those in the Labour Party such as Harriett Harman, Diane Abbott or David Miliband.

[Bun]

Hang on, so its ok because its got a different name coined by the Labour Party into making people such as yourself believe its perfectly fine? So its fairly alright to discriminate against white straight men but not the other way around, well heres news for you - neither way is fine and for you or the party you support to call the BNP names like racist, homophobic or sexist is the height of hypocrisy, it really is but I doubt it'll make much of an impression on you.

UKIP on the other hand has nothing (sod all, jack all) to do with this debate, we were going along quite fine without them being mentioned but you had to go and spoil it didnt you darling, next we'll have Rosie complaining that I bring UKIP up too often.

christ on a bike, how do you know i even agree with affirmative action? you don't. the bnp ARE racist and homophobic. there is a huge difference from having racist ideologies and making sure minorities feel represented, i don't see how you can possibly link them?

nah, you never directly mentioned ukip but you'll happily sit there and call labour and conservatives racist and moan about the eu when really ukip are just a bunch of xenophobes who thinks the eu is undemocratic. and don't call me darling, kiddo.

[-:Undertaker:-]

christ on a bike, how do you know i even agree with affirmative action? you don't. the bnp ARE racist and homophobic. there is a huge difference from having racist ideologies and making sure minorities feel represented, i don't see how you can possibly link them?

nah, you never directly mentioned ukip but you'll happily sit there and call labour and conservatives racist and moan about the eu when really ukip are just a bunch of xenophobes who thinks the eu is undemocratic. and don't call me darling, kiddo.

I have said the BNP are racist but you have just ignored that to post some smart reply, how can I link them? - very simple really.

I discriminate against a person/s because of their race, I am a racist.
I discriminate against a person/s because of their sex, I am a sexist.
I discriminate against a person/s because of their sexuality, I am a homophobe.

Now do you agree or disagree with that? yes/no??

As for the European Union, lets not even go there but I would advise you read up on it, considering its never been elected or asked for i'd say its pretty undemocratic, wouldnt you? - or are you that confused now with conflicting party loyalty and common sense that you now dont even know what the meaning of democracy is, let alone racism.

[Catzsy]

Point out one example in the history of my posts where I have attacked a paper first.

I didn't say you had attacked a paper first but you seem to rely on 'right wing' papers that only see it from one side
so you don't have a balanced perspective. Also, any posts that are against the mail are for that reason and they don't get personal about the member who reads the paper like you do. Example:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthrea...82#post6531982

A great contribution there. So anyway, what newspaper do you read (i'll hazard a guess) - is it the Guardian while your sipping your nettle tea talking to your social worker/teacher friends about how everything is Margaret Thatchers fault? ..or are you just still caught up in Obamarama

by Undertaker Racism does, because both the Labour Party, Conservative Party and the British National Party have policies/leading figures who are in favour of sexist and racist policies and methods. No Labour Party members such as Diane Abbott or David Miliband (your next leader who you'll not doubt be voting for come next election) are convicted of racism and why is that? - because they discriminate and say things in favour of minorities and not the majority which is the white population. This really grinds my gears, you and your party think discriminating against white people/straight people is perfectly fine all in the name of 'diversity and equality' but cannot stand to have somebody do exactly the same just the other way around.

No they don't - they have no policies in respect of race like you are always trying to say which is the issue here not woman who are actually a majority in this country although I do not have anytime for Dianne Abbot myself. The BNP is a facist and racist organisation who got their just rewards in the last election. Where is the hard evidence to substantiate your claims here?

Find me one example where I have said you are not allowed a right to your opinion - you see you keep saying this over and over again in every thread as though thats the justification for your side of the discussion but the fact is I have never said anything of the sort.

Comments like these:

dont speak down on a party (the BNP) which takes the same line of thinking as yourself and your own party but only the other way around.

have made it very clear in my post which you seemed to have ignored clearly, you cannot go around preaching about the British National Party and its views or actions

The fact is I can and I don't tell you not to say - I may not agree with your opinions but I defend the right for you to express them.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I didn't say you had attacked a paper first but you seem to rely on 'right wing' papers that only see it from one side
so you don't have a balanced perspective. Also, any posts that are against the mail are for that reason and they don't get personal about the member who reads the paper like you do. Example:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthrea...82#post6531982

Wow you used the one example I referred to in the first place! Of course I rely on right-wing papers, just as you yourself are biased towards the left - its called having an opinion, afterall you always defend your right to an opinion even when that right is not under attack.

That post anyway was partly a joke, nettle tea has nothing to do with the Guardian and its just a sterotype, just as i'm sure many (including myself) associate the Daily Mail with immigration, the Telegraph with the Conservative Party and so forth. I can take a joke and can joke myself, but as usual its taken wayyyy out of context.

No they don't - they have no policies in respect of race like you are always trying to say which is the issue here not woman who are actually a majority in this country although I do not have anytime for Dianne Abbot myself. The BNP is a facist and racist organisation who got their just rewards in the last election. Where is the hard evidence to substantiate your claims here?

Diane Abbott - complained that the leadership race was made of 'pale' straight males - imagine if Nick Griffin complained that he was seeing too many black females about.

David Miliband - voted for Diane Abbott to make the race seem more 'diverse' - imagine if Nick Griffin voted for somebody based on their racial greed, sexuality or gender.

So why Rosie, are Labour any better than the BNP?

Comments like this:
I don't tell you not to say - I may not agree with your opinions but I defend the right for you to express them.

That is debate clearly, theres a difference between me saying 'you cannot/should not speak down on a party such as the BNP' and what I would say if I was disputing your right to say it which would be 'Rosie, you dont have any right to an opinion' - so to conclude, its debate not orders.

[Catzsy]

Wow you used the one example I referred to in the first place! Of course I rely on right-wing papers, just as you yourself are biased towards the left - its called having an opinion, afterall you always defend your right to an opinion even when that right is not under attack.

That post anyway was partly a joke, nettle tea has nothing to do with the Guardian and its just a sterotype, just as i'm sure many (including myself) associate the Daily Mail with immigration, the Telegraph with the Conservative Party and so forth. I can take a joke and can joke myself, but as usual its taken wayyyy out of context.

Diane Abbott - complained that the leadership race was made of 'pale' straight males - imagine if Nick Griffin complained that he was seeing too many black females about.

David Miliband - voted for Diane Abbott to make the race seem more 'diverse' - imagine if Nick Griffin voted for somebody based on their racial greed, sexuality or gender.

So why Rosie, are Labour any better than the BNP?

That is debate clearly, theres a difference between me saying 'you cannot/should not speak down on a party such as the BNP' and what I would say if I was disputing your right to say it which would be 'Rosie, you dont have any right to an opinion' - so to conclude, its debate not orders.

Sources for these statements although I can imagine her saying that tbh. She should stay in presenting. Again what you say about David Milliband is absolute tosh. He did not vote for her because she was female or black he voted for her to get a Left wing candidate on the ballot paper. Right, Dan all political parties including UKIP are better than the BNP because they are a racist and Facist organisation - that is the answer. Sorry it comes over as us not having a right to our opinion - I am sure many oter members will agree with that as well. The last thing debates should do is get personal.

[Bun]

I have said the BNP are racist but you have just ignored that to post some smart reply, how can I link them? - very simple really.

I discriminate against a person/s because of their race, I am a racist.
I discriminate against a person/s because of their sex, I am a sexist.
I discriminate against a person/s because of their sexuality, I am a homophobe.

Now do you agree or disagree with that? yes/no??

As for the European Union, lets not even go there but I would advise you read up on it, considering its never been elected or asked for i'd say its pretty undemocratic, wouldnt you? - or are you that confused now with conflicting party loyalty and common sense that you now dont even know what the meaning of democracy is, let alone racism.

I discriminate against a person/s because of their race, I am a racist. agree
I discriminate against a person/s because of their sex, I am a sexist. agree
I discriminate against a person/s because of their sexuality, I am a homophobe. well, discrimination against homosexuals. but i won't get fussy over that.

however you missed something out, not all discrimination is negative. women shortlisting is positive discrimination, as it encourages female representation and thus more women feel represented. i think something really needs to be done to balance out male, pale and stale parliament, so it can catch up with the rest of society, or are you against that?

alright alright let's see:
european parliament - elected
european council - head of states and therefore, elected
european commission - nominated by the elected member states from each country, and approved by the elected european parliament

so no, sounds nice 'n democratic to me

oh and don't tell me what i do and do not know

[-:Undertaker:-]

Sources for these statements although I can imagine her saying that tbh. She should stay in presenting. Again what you say about David Milliband is absolute tosh. He did not vote for her because she was female or black he voted for her to get a Left wing candidate on the ballot paper. Right, Dan all political parties including UKIP are better than the BNP because they are a racist and Facist organisation - that is the answer. Sorry it comes over as us not having a right to our opinion - I am sure many oter members will agree with that as well. The last thing debates should do is get personal.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...eadership-race
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...leadership-bid

With help from unlikely sources, Diane Abbott made it on to the ballot to contest the Labour leadership, where the backbencher – admittedly Cambridge educated herself – will take on four white, male Oxbridge educated ex-cabinet ministers who were all special advisers before becoming MPs.David Miliband, one of the contenders, transferred his nomination to Abbott, the leftwing MP for Hackney North and Stoke Newington, this morning, 24 hours after acting Labour leader Harriet Harman did the same in an attempt to get a woman on to the ballot.

The man clearly transferred his vote over to Abbott to seem like a good guy whos trying to get a diverse leadership race, you dont vote for a rival for the sake of it. The concept of the BNP, again, you are sweeping it under the carpet - why is the BNP racist and the Labour & Conservative Partys not when they all in some form or other discriminate against people based on their sexuality, race or gender. It is all wrong, it should be based on merits, not the colour of your skin or the gender you were born. If UKIP ever move to candidate shortlists based on race or gender, i'll class them as in exactly the same league as Labour, the Conservatives and the BNP.

I discriminate against a person/s because of their race, I am a racist. agree
I discriminate against a person/s because of their sex, I am a sexist. agree
I discriminate against a person/s because of their sexuality, I am a homophobe. well, discrimination against homosexuals. but i won't get fussy over that.

however you missed something out, not all discrimination is negative. women shortlisting is positive discrimination, as it encourages female representation and thus more women feel represented. i think something really needs to be done to balance out male, pale and stale parliament, so it can catch up with the rest of society, or are you against that?

Well you obviously do not agree because to then, only a few sentences after you've 'agreed' with me - dismantled your own argument in favour of what you call 'positive discrimination' - yes I am against people being placed into jobs based on their gender, race or sexuality, just as I am opposed to anybody being knocked back in life because of their sexuality, gender or race. Why should somebody be given a job based on their race, gender or sexuality?

There is no such thing as positive discrimination, because in doing so you discriminate negativly against the other side (be it white or black) - in South Africa under apartheid they could have called it 'positive discrimination' in favour of whites, but you dont agree with that i'm sure?

alright alright let's see:
european parliament - elected
european council - head of states and therefore, elected
european commission - nominated by the elected member states from each country, and approved by the elected european parliament

so no, sounds nice 'n democratic to me

oh and don't tell me what i do and do not know

European Parliament - no real legislative powers, is only consultative.
European Council - no elections held for the Council President, body not elected anyway and therefore is not democratic.
European Commission - not elected by the public and must act in line with the needs of the EU, not national interests.
ECJ - unelected and unaccountable.
All - unelected and unaccountable.

Thats democracy is it?

[Catzsy]

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2...eadership-race
http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisf...leadership-bid



The man clearly transferred his vote over to Abbott to seem like a good guy whos trying to get a diverse leadership race, you dont vote for a rival for the sake of it. The concept of the BNP, again, you are sweeping it under the carpet - why is the BNP racist and the Labour & Conservative Partys not when they all in some form or other discriminate against people based on their sexuality, race or gender. It is all wrong, it should be based on merits, not the colour of your skin or the gender you were born.


If UKIP ever move to candidate shortlists based on race or gender, i'll class them as in exactly the same league as Labour, the Conservatives and the BNP.

Nowhere does it say he voted for her nomination because she was a woman and black, Dan. He voted to get a left wing candidate in to do some damage to Ed Balls campaign - thats the way I see it. There are no shortlists based on race - that is against the law. How many times do I have to say that as well? The only exception was all woman shortlists were exempt from the Sexual Discrimination Act for awhile but I believe that has been repealed as well.

[Bun]

Well you obviously do not agree because to then, only a few sentences after you've 'agreed' with me - dismantled your own argument in favour of what you call 'positive discrimination' - yes I am against people being placed into jobs based on their gender, race or sexuality, just as I am opposed to anybody being knocked back in life because of their sexuality, gender or race. Why should somebody be given a job based on their race, gender or sexuality?

so you do not believe that something needs to be done to make parliament more representative towards the population after centuries of male dominance?

There is no such thing as positive discrimination, because in doing so you discriminate negativly against the other side (be it white or black) - in South Africa under apartheid they could have called it 'positive discrimination' in favour of whites, but you dont agree with that i'm sure?

yes and that's a con of it. i haven't said i agree with it, although it does increase representation.

European Parliament - no real legislative powers, is only consultative.
European Council - no elections held for the Council members.
European Commission - not elected by the public and must act in line with the needs of the EU, not national interests.
ECJ - unelected and unaccountable.
All - unelected and unaccountable.
That democractic is it?

european parliament can reject bills lol?
european council are the head of states of each 27 countries respectively, that's democratic enough for me
commission is elected by elected ministers and approved by an elected parliament
judges are appointed by elected governments, which is part of the power we give them in the mandate upon being elected