BNP 'turning into Ukip'

[-:Undertaker:-]

What many people don't realise in their ignorance is that governments 99% of the time actually make the best decisions, they are very big decisions and they generally run like clockwork and unnoticed.

So lets see then; is that a banking crisis, an invasion based on the false pretext of that country having WMD, more powers to unelected politicians in the European Union, large government databases which data is continously lost/goes missing in, ancient civil liberties destroyed in a matter of a few years, military cutbacks which left the Falklands undefended, the building of the white elephant that is the Dome, a large government debt which runs into the trillions, a Prime Minister who sold UK gold stocks on the markets for dirt cheap prices.. the list goes on and on.

You stick an amateur in government and what would happen is say, for example, is that UKIP would pull out of the EU and forget to do something like sort out trading with other countries.

No they wouldn't forget that so don't be so ridiculous, they could make **** ups in almost anything (just like the present lot) but seeing as many in UKIP are from the private sector thats far more unlikely to happen than under the likes of Ed Miliband who has never left the world of politics and who has worked for the state for the period of his short life.

Or perhaps because they're one track minded they would neglect every other problem because they only wanted to be in power to pull out of the EU / deport people they don't like.

I think you'll find UKIP had one of the most comprehensive policy manifestos in the election, more so than the main parties themselves who only offered vague election promises under each page of their manifestos. As for the deporting part, whats to stop David Cameron deporting people he doesn't like tommorow (Julian Assange for one?).

Things like tuition fees whilst sounding very important are actually very minor in perspective.

Let's see, things they've [the Lib/Lab/Con] have lied about off the top of my head; WMD/European Union/various election pledges/referendum promises/tuition fees.. and on and on and on.

So don't sit here and tell me (hopefully not with a straight face) that somehow these lot are trustworthy.

Correction: Nigel 'Griffin' Farage.

You have as much evidence for that as I have of saying David 'Griffin' Cameron, absolute and utter nonsense.

[Chippiewill]

So lets see then; is that a banking crisis, an invasion based on the false pretext of that country having WMD, more powers to unelected politicians in the European Union, large government databases which data is continously lost/goes missing in, ancient civil liberties destroyed in a matter of a few years, military cutbacks which left the Falklands undefended, the building of the white elephant that is the Dome, a large government debt which runs into the trillions, a Prime Minister who sold UK gold stocks on the markets for dirt cheap prices.. the list goes on and on.

Of course I cannot list the scale of the things that I am thinking of, because they haven't happened yet. You cannot trust an amateur government to run the economy properly.

No they wouldn't forget that so don't be so ridiculous, they could make **** ups in almost anything (just like the present lot) but seeing as many in UKIP are from the private sector thats far more unlikely to happen than under the likes of Ed Miliband who has never left the world of politics and who has worked for the state for the period of his short life.

Did you feel like replying to the same thing twice whilst still ignoring my interim post?

I think you'll find UKIP had one of the most comprehensive policy manifestos in the election, more so than the main parties themselves who only offered vague election promises under each page of their manifestos. As for the deporting part, whats to stop David Cameron deporting people he doesn't like tommorow (Julian Assange for one?).

It's obvious that UKIP really has one agenda and that is to pull out of the EU, having succeeded that all the other main parties would manage everything else to a better standard.

Let's see, things they've [the Lib/Lab/Con] have lied about off the top of my head; WMD/European Union/various election pledges/referendum promises/tuition fees.. and on and on and on.

So don't sit here and tell me (hopefully not with a straight face) that somehow these lot are trustworthy.

Politicians all lie, I'd rather have those which I can trust to actually run the country rather than just pull out of the EU and that's it.

You have as much evidence for that as I have of saying David 'Griffin' Cameron, absolute and utter nonsense.

Actually I meant that in jest.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Of course I cannot list the scale of the things that I am thinking of, because they haven't happened yet. You cannot trust an amateur government to run the economy properly.

So what about the mostly new MP-filled parliament we have now? most of those people have never been in government before.

Did you feel like replying to the same thing twice whilst still ignoring my interim post?

I replied to your first post as the second one had nothing to reply to (and if you think there's something you'd like a response to then point it out and I will gladly respond) and I did promise i'd give a more full reply to the first post, which i've done and which you've largely dismissed.

It's obvious that UKIP really has one agenda and that is to pull out of the EU, having succeeded that all the other main parties would manage everything else to a better standard.

I just told you that UKIP had a more comprehensive manifesto than either the Labour Party, the Conservative Party or the Liberal Democrats - so you've no basis what so ever to say things are being run to a better standard, especially when i've just given numerous examples of failure.

Politicians all lie, I'd rather have those which I can trust to actually run the country rather than just pull out of the EU and that's it.

No, again they have a comprehensive manifesto far bigger than the main parties - you can't actually run the country while being in the EU, somebody does it for you.

[Inseriousity.]

If you're trying to appeal to voters, you're going to have to tone things down and try and match them to the country's ideals and values. All extremely pointless because Nick Griffin is useless and won't get the party anywhere so I'm personally hoping they hang onto him.

[MrPinkPanther]

To be fair 'Chippiewill' you sound ridiculous.

[Conservative,]

Can I just point these two things out...

UKIP:

Freeze immigration for permanent settlement for five years
Aspire to ensure that any future immigration does not exceed 50,000 a year, using a points-based system
Triple the number of illegal immigrants deported
"no home no visa" work permits for immigrants
Force all public employees to carry out their duties with their faces uncovered
Require people to have uncovered faces in all public buildings and "certain private buildings"
End the "active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism" by local and national government.




BNP:

Immediate halt to all immigration
Immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants
Offer legal immigrants and their descendants financial incentives to return voluntarily to their countries of origin
End "positive discrimination" schemes that benefit ethnic minorities in the workplace
Review all grants of residence or citizenship made since 1997
Bar "foreigners who have not paid into the system" from access to benefits, social housing, state education and pensions
Reject all asylum applicants who passed through "safe" countries on their way to Britain
Repeal Race Relations Act and other equality legislation
Increase funding to the UK Border Agency
Ban the burka, "non-stunned ritual slaughter" of animals and the building of further mosques.




Don't sound all that different to me.

[MrPinkPanther]

Can I just quote the London chairman of UKIP here:

You Left-wing scum are all the same, wanting to hand our birthright to Romanian gypsies who beat their wives and children into begging and stealing money they can gamble with, Muslim nutters who want to kill us and put us all under medieval Sharia law, the same Africans who sold their Afro-Caribbean brothers into a slavery that Britain was the first to abolish.

Hmmm.

[alexxxxx]

End the "active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism" by local and national government.

it's these sort of vague and odd phrases in UKIP propaganda that makes it sound like the posh bnp.

[Conservative,]

Can I just quote the London chairman of UKIP here:



Hmmm.

Wow...I'm right of centre but that is a bit OTT.

it's these sort of vague and odd phrases in UKIP propaganda that makes it sound like the posh bnp.

That was my point.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Watch for some common sense on the immigration issue;

Can I just point these two things out...

UKIP:

Freeze immigration for permanent settlement for five years
-Which is good idea considering we have just under 1 million illegal immigrants here with no controls at all.

Aspire to ensure that any future immigration does not exceed 50,000 a year, using a points-based system
-Totally sensible, Tories introduced a cap on non-EU immigration only last month (don't you support the Tories?).

Triple the number of illegal immigrants deported
-Can't see what problem you'd have with that.

"no home no visa" work permits for immigrants
-Indeed, closes loopholes where people can bring family over.

Force all public employees to carry out their duties with their faces uncovered
-Yeah, I couldn't wear a hood if I worked in council offices - why should burkas be any different?

Require people to have uncovered faces in all public buildings and "certain private buildings"
-Totally agree, private buildings would be down to those businesses as they are not state owned.

End the "active promotion of the doctrine of multiculturalism" by local and national government.
-In agreement, 'multiculturalism' only serves to divide peope.


BNP:

Immediate halt to all immigration
-Agreed.

Immediate deportation of criminal and illegal immigrants
-Agreed.

Offer legal immigrants and their descendants financial incentives to return voluntarily to their countries of origin
-Do not agree, clearly racist.

End "positive discrimination" schemes that benefit ethnic minorities in the workplace
-Agreed, hire people based on merit not race.

Review all grants of residence or citizenship made since 1997
-Not agreed.

Bar "foreigners who have not paid into the system" from access to benefits, social housing, state education and pensions
-Not agreed, would introduce a system though for *everyone* where you have to pay in for a period of 10 years.

Reject all asylum applicants who passed through "safe" countries on their way to Britain
-Agreed.

Repeal Race Relations Act and other equality legislation
-Agreed, racism is illegal under real old English law.

Increase funding to the UK Border Agency
-Agreed.

Ban the burka, "non-stunned ritual slaughter" of animals and the building of further mosques.
-Not agreed, state should not be involved.

So there, i've written under your examples and now you should be able to see very clear differences.

Don't sound all that different to me.

I think you'll find big differences, firstly that the immigration policy of UKIP has nothing to do with race/where you come from and that UKIP support a visa system (which is what the rest of the world have) rather than an open door which has led to just under one milllion illegal immigrants entering the United Kingdom. The BNP on the other hand want to send people back to their 'native' countries based on their race, UKIP doesnt - maybe another reason why UKIP has numerous asian/black councillors but just becase we don't make an issue of race doesn't mean we are nasty racists.

The bukra issue is worded wrongly, the burka they said would be down to the people who own a shop, so for example it would get rid of the 'discrimination' fear that many companies have. I heard the other week that somebody who went to my school and who got a job in Primark was told "don't serve anybody with a hood or their face covered" - anyway a woman who couldn't speak English and who was wearing a burka turns up and he refuses to serve her - he then gets fired for it.

That is what the UKIP policy would remove.

Can I just quote the London chairman of UKIP here:

Hmmm.

To which the party disiplined him for, just as the Labour Party/Tory Party and so forth have people like that in.

it's these sort of vague and odd phrases in UKIP propaganda that makes it sound like the posh bnp.

The difference being that the BNP decides on race and UKIP doesn't, yeah? pretty simple really isn't it. I know the cosy left concensus both on here and in the political mainstream label everybody who is against mass uncontrolled immigration as a racist - but most people see that as a common sense option.

Just because the BNP say some things similar to UKIP (and what most people say in the average pub) doesn't mean its automatically wrong.