WOW! Perm Ban?!

[Josh]

Indeed, they were so personable Mods seem to lack the social skills to work on the hotel, which is why Hobbas were useful as they were essentially Habbos with a badge and Habbo know-how, who played the game and talked to people the same age. Mods just do it as a job and take it too seriously, as you can see with all these threads. If you don't have proof, don't act.

Maybe even a system where expert players recieve the reports and sort them out and them forward them to the mod. They can reply (if it's a question) and they can forward on reports that need consequences.

[Redtiz]

I just want to highlight something about this issue in the hope that it helps all of you.

I have sorted out Vissionaire's ban, NOT because a Moderator made a mistake or misread a chat log, but because I gave him the benefit of the doubt. As he says, he was joking around about scripting however it didn't read like a joke and he didn't give any indication that it was a joke (e.g. by saying 'joke' or winking etc). Apparently he did at some point later, however chat logs are very short snapshots of what happened immediately prior to a player reporting. In other words, if you kid around and someone reports you, then 5 minutes later you fess up that it was a joke....the Moderator has no way of knowing that.

Moderators and only act on what they see in a log. They can't see inside your heads, they don't know whether you are serious or joking unless you make it absolutely clear you are joking at the time. In the case of joking about scripting, nobody knows whether someone will discover a glitch that enables some type of scripting so reports that someone is scripting are taken very seriously...because it disrupts the game and can potentially harm it or players of it.

Also remember that when you joke to your mates in the real world, you are given away by your body language and facial expressions but nobody can see those online. ALL they have to go by is what you type and unless you use emoticons to indicate your emotions, it's often hard to tell. E.G:

"I'm going to kill you!"
-V-
"I'm going to kill you! "

So if you don't make your intentions clear then whilst you are sitting there thinking that the person you were talking to knew it was a joke...the reality often is that they didn't and they've reported you.

We get quite a large number of these 'but I was only joking!' ban appeals and in all honesty they are frustrating because a) you're locked out of your account and b) the issue burns up lots of customer support time which could be better spent on real issues. It's all avoidable if you just make it absolutely clear when you are fooling around.

[GommeInc]

I just want to highlight something about this issue in the hope that it helps all of you.

I have sorted out Vissionaire's ban, NOT because a Moderator made a mistake or misread a chat log, but because I gave him the benefit of the doubt. As he says, he was joking around about scripting however it didn't read like a joke and he didn't give any indication that it was a joke (e.g. by saying 'joke' or winking etc). Apparently he did at some point later, however chat logs are very short snapshots of what happened immediately prior to a player reporting. In other words, if you kid around and someone reports you, then 5 minutes later you fess up that it was a joke....the Moderator has no way of knowing that.

Moderators and only act on what they see in a log. They can't see inside your heads, they don't know whether you are serious or joking unless you make it absolutely clear you are joking at the time. In the case of joking about scripting, nobody knows whether someone will discover a glitch that enables some type of scripting so reports that someone is scripting are taken very seriously...because it disrupts the game and can potentially harm it or players of it.

Also remember that when you joke to your mates in the real world, you are given away by your body language and facial expressions but nobody can see those online. ALL they have to go by is what you type and unless you use emoticons to indicate your emotions, it's often hard to tell. E.G:

"I'm going to kill you!"
-V-
"I'm going to kill you! "

So if you don't make your intentions clear then whilst you are sitting there thinking that the person you were talking to knew it was a joke...the reality often is that they didn't and they've reported you.

We get quite a large number of these 'but I was only joking!' ban appeals and in all honesty they are frustrating because a) you're locked out of your account and b) the issue burns up lots of customer support time which could be better spent on real issues. It's all avoidable if you just make it absolutely clear when you are fooling around.

It's a joke until actions prove otherwise. Here are a few useful phrases that moderators should take into account:

"Actions speak louder than words". - I've been using the internet for well over 10 years, I know how e-conversations work and I know when someone is joking. How? Because the way they act, their actions, would prove when a joke is not a joke. If someone is jokingly calling themselves a "scripter" you'd have evidence that this joke wasn't a joke when you start noticing unexplained actions. Scripting, although rare, is blatantly obvious, you'd notice unexplainable actions happening from the users, because their actions are what justify seriousness.

This brings me onto the next phrase:

"Innocent until proven guilty" - An irritating phrase shouted all the time in America, but the logic behind it is useful. Until you have evidence to suggest someone is a scammer, scripter, "hacker" or generally having cyber sex, they are innocent. If someone has had their account taken over, you'd know by contact with the original account holder or IPs and other identifying objects not matching up. However, as you are limited to chat logs (which I am sure never used to be the case with Habbo), you'd go by the language used. If someone has had their account hijacked, you'd see conversations being exchanged between the two accounts suggesting so, or trade ogs which are another tool I was very sure existed on Habbo. If not, they should do seeing as furniture items are the main product people are buying into with their Habbo Credits and real life money. With a scripter, you'd see "watch this" or "Look, I can make the walls fall down into oblivion" and so forth, banning someone for saying "lols I am a scripter" is incredibly silly and very unprofessional.

Back to your post:

"I'm going to kill you!"
-V-
"I'm going to kill you! "

Both are to be considered jokes UNTIL you see the reaction of the other Habbo. If you get a "HELP!" report (or whatever Habbo call it nowadays), then good, someone is definitely using the system like they should be, but if they're not sure of the system, watch the chat logs and see how they unfold. If the user is deeply disgusted (again, following language), act on it. Do NOT act until you have proof, as "I'm going to kill you" isn't proof, it's to be seen as the primary phrase in which to follow the conversation further until sufficient evidence has been gathered on which to act.

Afterall, you're an online community and social website, if members can't be allowed to joke then it's no wonder Habbo is getting such a bad press from past and present users. Saying the user has to self moderate what should be free flowing conversation to make what they are saying "absolutely clear that they're joking" is a pretty lousy excuse, especially for teenagers. Don't point to finger at the conversations the Habbos are having, point the finger at terrible moderating techniques.

[Redtiz]

It's a joke until actions prove otherwise. Here are a few useful phrases that moderators should take into account:

"Actions speak louder than words". - I've been using the internet for well over 10 years, I know how e-conversations work and I know when someone is joking. How? Because the way they act, their actions, would prove when a joke is not a joke. If someone is jokingly calling themselves a "scripter" you'd have evidence that this joke wasn't a joke when you start noticing unexplained actions. Scripting, although rare, is blatantly obvious, you'd notice unexplainable actions happening from the users, because their actions are what justify seriousness.

With all due respect Gomme, I've been working professionally in online communities for longer than you've been on the Internet and in many cases there is no easy way for a moderator to tell what is a joke and what isn't from chat logs alone unless the speaker has utilised emoticons or in some other way made it clear it was a joke. In addition, the very fact that the moderators are dealing with the situation in the first place indicates that other players in the room didn't take it as a joke because they've sent a call for help about it. Players tend not to send a report if it's a case of friends larking around joking, they report if they believe what the person's saying is true.

"Innocent until proven guilty" - An irritating phrase shouted all the time in America, but the logic behind it is useful. Until you have evidence to suggest someone is a scammer, scripter, "hacker" or generally having cyber sex, they are innocent.

Innocent until proven guilty is a legal principle applying to trials and has absolutely nothing to do with moderating a community in line with Terms & Conditions. The fact is that we never could and never will launch a full-scale investigation with deep analysis of such things as furniture logs simply to ascertain whether someone is joking in a chat log.

If someone has had their account taken over, you'd know by contact with the original account holder or IPs and other identifying objects not matching up. However, as you are limited to chat logs (which I am sure never used to be the case with Habbo), you'd go by the language used. If someone has had their account hijacked, you'd see conversations being exchanged between the two accounts suggesting so, or trade ogs which are another tool I was very sure existed on Habbo. If not, they should do seeing as furniture items are the main product people are buying into with their Habbo Credits and real life money. With a scripter, you'd see "watch this" or "Look, I can make the walls fall down into oblivion" and so forth, banning someone for saying "lols I am a scripter" is incredibly silly and very unprofessional.

And these things you suggest would mean that it'd take a moderator an hour to investigate one report of such a nature which is neither practical nor realistic cost-wise.

Both are to be considered jokes UNTIL you see the reaction of the other Habbo. If you get a "HELP!" report (or whatever Habbo call it nowadays), then good, someone is definitely using the system like they should be, but if they're not sure of the system, watch the chat logs and see how they unfold. If the user is deeply disgusted (again, following language), act on it. Do NOT act until you have proof, as "I'm going to kill you" isn't proof, it's to be seen as the primary phrase in which to follow the conversation further until sufficient evidence has been gathered on which to act.

A moderator ONLY acts on someone saying "I'm going to kill you" because a player has sent a report about it saying they're upset/scared/what-have-you. When someone reports a short chat log of what happened in the room the player reported from is attached and that is what moderators base their decisions upon. I'm afraid moderators do not have the time to read hours worth of chat logs, or sit 'watching' how the conversation may unfold after the call for help. A site as large as habbo.com has approx 10,000 player reports a day and if they are to be answered, speed is necessary. If players really wanted a full-scale, police style investigation on each and every report sent then naturally the cost of everything on Habbo would have to absolutely sky-rocket in order to finance the extra hundreds of moderation staff that would be needed because the current ones would only be able to answer 1-2 reports an hour rather than the 100-150 they currently do.

Of course the other, and rather simpler solution, would be to avoid joking about things which you know damn well incur a ban OR to joke in a way which results in it not looking like a joke and upsetting another player to the extent that they then report the issue.

Afterall, you're an online community and social website, if members can't be allowed to joke then it's no wonder Habbo is getting such a bad press from past and present users.

Players are allowed to joke, but they need to make it clear that it's a joke. If your 'joke' leads to another Habbo being so upset or worried that they send a call for help, then it's not a very good joke is it. Again, I'll make an analogy with turning up at an airport and telling the customs person you've got a bomb in your bag... you're quite free to do so, but the consequences are likely to be that you get invited to a side room and have a rubber gloved hand introduced to your nether regions and saying 'but it was a joke' will get you absolutely nowhere. Try phoning up your local police station and telling them you've just killed someone and then, when they turn up on your doorstep, saying "Sorry, only joking!" You'd be charged with wasting police time.

It should really be self-evident that there are some subjects that it's not a good idea to joke about and, if you do, then it's best to make it absolutely clear it is a joke.

[Honesty:]

"Innocent until proven guilty" - An irritating phrase shouted all the time in America, but the logic behind it is useful. Until you have evidence to suggest someone is a scammer, scripter, "hacker" or generally having cyber sex, they are innocent. If someone has had their account taken over, you'd know by contact with the original account holder or IPs and other identifying objects not matching up. However, as you are limited to chat logs (which I am sure never used to be the case with Habbo), you'd go by the language used. If someone has had their account hijacked, you'd see conversations being exchanged between the two accounts suggesting so, or trade ogs which are another tool I was very sure existed on Habbo. If not, they should do seeing as furniture items are the main product people are buying into with their Habbo Credits and real life money. With a scripter, you'd see "watch this" or "Look, I can make the walls fall down into oblivion" and so forth, banning someone for saying "lols I am a scripter" is incredibly silly and very unprofessional.

Innocent until proven guilty only applies in criminal cases and NOT civil cases. This is because in criminal cases, a wrong decision can land you in jail and in same countries and states - a death sentence. However, in civil cases, it leads to a fine, hence in a civil case, if the Judge is 49% defence - 51% claimant, the claimant wins. However that will never be the case in criminal trials.

I know this from experience, and if you do not believe me, I am sure it is on the Court's website.

On to Redtiz's analogy: It is a very good one. A restaurant owner here had a lot of press for giving free meals to elderly people. Then he was travelling and at the airport, he was asked the standard question "Do you have any sharp objects or explosives in your suitcase". He laughed and said "yes I have explosives". Remember, he laughed - suggesting it is a joke. Police were called in immediately and the person and his family were detained for 24 hours. They missed their flight and holiday.

Both are law points. Even though he showed emotion which would suggestion he was joking, he was arrested for the safety of other passengers.

If on Habbo, a user says "I am going to hack you", it is impossible for a Moderator to tell if it is a joke or not. Ofcourse you probably know even if there is no emoticon as this person is your friend and you know them well, but Moderators do not.

And at the end of the day, Habbo is a business with the aim to make profit. If they see that their user base is growing and those who moan about such things end up staying anyway, why invest in hundreds of new moderators? Anyway, I think someone posted in the News forum that they are hiring new ones as applications are open in Singapore.

---------- Post added 25-01-2011 at 06:52 PM ----------

No wait, he only said " It's not as if I've got a bomb" and he was arrested for that. That is worse (not as in what he said) as he didn't say he had explosives.

[Rijden]

What you did lulz?

[Catzsy]

What you did lulz?

It says he got banned for using scripting programmes.