Wales says Yes in Referendum Vote

[-:Undertaker:-]

N. Ireland represent

I'm assuming you are referring to British 'occupation' of Ireland and still view it as that? if so then..

What about the French who invaded England back in 1066? should everyone of French decent in England return to France?
What about the Ottomans who invaded the Byzantane Empire? should Turkey vacate itself of muslims?
What about the Spanish/Portugese colonised South America? should those hundreds of millions return back to the Iberian shoreline?
What about the entire world population, which is believed to have started in Africa? should we vacate it all?

I am afraid whether you like it or not Northern Ireland wishes to remain a part of the United Kingdom, despite the wishes of the ghastly IRA and its political mouthpiece, Sinn Fein. The referendum proved this and I think will continue to prove this, Northern Ireland remains very British for the foreseeable future. Ireland once owned that land yes, Britain now owns it proper as the people living there wish to be British and not Irish.

The same way if we were to return land to original owners, well we'd end up with everyone going back to Africa.

I agree about having an english parliament for issues that only effect england as this is what the nations have. Parliament would still be in charge of issues that effect the whole of the UK.

Or why not just have the sensible policy where Scottish MPs meet up weekly in Westminister to discuss solely Scottish matters and vice versa concerning Northern Ireland, England and Wales? saves the trouble of more layers of government along with having to suffer the building of places such as the Scottish parliament which has to be the most ugly structure ever built by man.

The UKIP Solution

• The Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly and the Northern Ireland Assembly will be retained but MSPs and Assembly Members for Wales and Northern Ireland will be scrapped.
• An ‘English Parliament’ [a Grand Committee of UK MPs with English constituencies] will sit in the present House of Commons on ‘English Days’ to debate English affairs and English legislation.
• Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish Westminster MPs would sit as members of their respective national parliaments/assmblies (129 MSPs would therefore be reduced to 55 dual mandate Scottish MPs, the 60 Welsh Assembly members would be replaced by the 32 Welsh Westminster MPs and the 108 Members of the Northern Ireland Legislative Assembly will be replaced by 18 Westminster representatives).
• For some time in every month, assuming 1 week, the national bodies of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would meet in plenary within their home nations, and conduct additional committee work during Westminster weeks or recesses, as necessary.
• The unicameral nature of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish national chambers would be addressed by the House of Commons when it meets as the UK Parliament (the dual mandate chambers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be scrutinised by Westminster MPs).
• England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will each have their own First Minister selected from among their Westminster MPs.
• Devolved powers would be amended to prevent any UK citizen being disadvantaged in another nation within the UK (for example it would not be possible for Scottish universities to charge English students for services that they provide for free to Scottish students and students from other EU nations).
• Dependent on function Whitehall will be reorganised into either UK-wide or English departments. For example, a UK Department of Health will specify common standards, frameworks and approaches for the NHS across the UK, but national bodies will hold the Northern Irish NHS, Scottish NHS, Welsh NHS and English NHS to account at the national level.
• UKIP would seek a fair and balanced new alternative to the Barnett Formula based on rural, suburban and urban criteria, and on need, not arbitrary measures.

This is the correct way to deal with devolution in my eyes, in detail. There really is no point in the Union is it is to be seperated by national parliaments, as thats reverting back to de facto independence (and yes, if the people want independence then that is perfectly fine).

But in present form it is just turning into a cash cow, the cow being England.

[Niall!]

I'm assuming you are referring to British 'occupation' of Ireland and still view it as that? if so then..

What about the French who invaded England back in 1066? should everyone of French decent in England return to France?
What about the Ottomans who invaded the Byzantane Empire? should Turkey vacate itself of muslims?
What about the Spanish/Portugese colonised South America? should those hundreds of millions return back to the Iberian shoreline?
What about the entire world population, which is believed to have started in Africa? should we vacate it all?

I am afraid whether you like it or not Northern Ireland wishes to remain a part of the United Kingdom, despite the wishes of the ghastly IRA and its political mouthpiece, Sinn Fein. The referendum proved this and I think will continue to prove this, Northern Ireland remains very British for the foreseeable future. Ireland once owned that land yes, Britain now owns it proper as the people living there wish to be British and not Irish.

The same way if we were to return land to original owners, well we'd end up with everyone going back to Africa.



Or why not just have the sensible policy where Scottish MPs meet up weekly in Westminister to discuss solely Scottish matters and vice versa concerning Northern Ireland, England and Wales? saves the trouble of more layers of government along with having to suffer the building of places such as the Scottish parliament which has to be the most ugly structure ever built by man.

[/LIST]
This is the correct way to deal with devolution in my eyes, in detail. There really is no point in the Union is it is to be seperated by national parliaments, as thats reverting back to de facto independence (and yes, if the people want independence then that is perfectly fine).

But in present form it is just turning into a cash cow, the cow being England.

Huh? I don't mind NI being part of britain. I was replying to his complaining about how NI/scotland/wales are draining england dry.

[Sarah]

In my opinion, this will just separate the union until it falls part, with some indepdence claims from Scotland the union could easily be broken in the next ten years. The problem with individual parliaments within the union itself means that with different laws popping up in the different union countries, in my eyes it doesn't really fit the idea of a union. It makes much more sense to be together upon all things, I mean, as far as I can tell - whatever the individual parliaments are spending is coming from our taxes, if all our taxes are going into "one pot" then it's only right that that should be controlled by one parliament. It's like the Welsh Assembly offering to cover the increase in tuition fees for Welsh students - I can almost guaruntee this will eat up a huge part of the Welsh Budget, so are Wales then going to ask for money from English and Scottish taxpayers to fund the rest of the things they need? I'm with Dan (for once) on this, for the sake of the United Kingdom it should all be controlled through Westminster or we may as well split, be separate countries and have separate funds paid for by the taxpayer of the country, otherwise it's simply not fair to the other countries of the union.

The welsh assembly government doesn't dictate how much money it should get - its all up to westminster, also the budget for wales was decided before the tuition fees system was set up.

The UKIP Solution
The Scottish Parliament, the Welsh Assembly and the Northern Ireland Assembly will be retained but MSPs and Assembly Members for Wales and Northern Ireland will be scrapped.
An ‘English Parliament’ [a Grand Committee of UK MPs with English constituencies] will sit in the present House of Commons on ‘English Days’ to debate English affairs and English legislation.
Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish Westminster MPs would sit as members of their respective national parliaments/assmblies (129 MSPs would therefore be reduced to 55 dual mandate Scottish MPs, the 60 Welsh Assembly members would be replaced by the 32 Welsh Westminster MPs and the 108 Members of the Northern Ireland Legislative Assembly will be replaced by 18 Westminster representatives).
For some time in every month, assuming 1 week, the national bodies of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would meet in plenary within their home nations, and conduct additional committee work during Westminster weeks or recesses, as necessary.
The unicameral nature of the Scottish, Welsh and Northern Irish national chambers would be addressed by the House of Commons when it meets as the UK Parliament (the dual mandate chambers of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland would be scrutinised by Westminster MPs).
England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland will each have their own First Minister selected from among their Westminster MPs.
Devolved powers would be amended to prevent any UK citizen being disadvantaged in another nation within the UK (for example it would not be possible for Scottish universities to charge English students for services that they provide for free to Scottish students and students from other EU nations).
Dependent on function Whitehall will be reorganised into either UK-wide or English departments. For example, a UK Department of Health will specify common standards, frameworks and approaches for the NHS across the UK, but national bodies will hold the Northern Irish NHS, Scottish NHS, Welsh NHS and English NHS to account at the national level.
UKIP would seek a fair and balanced new alternative to the Barnett Formula based on rural, suburban and urban criteria, and on need, not arbitrary measures.

Correct me if I'm wrong haha - but is that saying have devolution within westminster? As in MPs from the different home nations can only decide issues from their different nations? If it is I like it and would probably save loads of money. The issue of unfairness in different nations (like university fees) is that how would they decide? It's clear that Scottish MSP don't want tuition fee's and the Welsh do but not so high. In a situation where the English MPs want to raise it (number: 533) and the welsh (40) and the Scotts (59) and N.Ireland (18) they would still be outnumbered? Unless the number of MPs from each nation was the same then surely it wouldn't be equal and one would always dominate the others.

[Chippiewill]

I follow the line Enoch Powell took; if Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland are to have their own parliaments they may aswell be independent. I'm a unionist myself, but if the union is to break up then the union is to break up and it is time to make that choice. All of us at Westminister, or the end of the United Kingdom.

This is so ironic that I fell off my chair.

[Conservative,]

The welsh assembly government doesn't dictate how much money it should get - its all up to westminster, also the budget for wales was decided before the tuition fees system was set up.




Correct me if I'm wrong haha - but is that saying have devolution within westminster? As in MPs from the different home nations can only decide issues from their different nations? If it is I like it and would probably save loads of money. The issue of unfairness in different nations (like university fees) is that how would they decide? It's clear that Scottish MSP don't want tuition fee's and the Welsh do but not so high. In a situation where the English MPs want to raise it (number: 533) and the welsh (40) and the Scotts (59) and N.Ireland (18) they would still be outnumbered? Unless the number of MPs from each nation was the same then surely it wouldn't be equal and one would always dominate the others.

It would have it so that tuition fees are decided by the national parliament/assembly but then it can't be unfair on other British nations (eg; Scots can't charge the English for going to Scottish Unis etc). And it IS fair with that amount of MPs for each country, because it's roughly the proportion of population and country. I think it's stupid to have 100 MPs representing 60 million people (England) and another 100 representing 3million people (wales). In fact, with that logic England should have 800 MPs but there we go.

[Catzsy]

It would have it so that tuition fees are decided by the national parliament/assembly but then it can't be unfair on other British nations (eg; Scots can't charge the English for going to Scottish Unis etc). And it IS fair with that amount of MPs for each country, because it's roughly the proportion of population and country. I think it's stupid to have 100 MPs representing 60 million people (England) and another 100 representing 3million people (wales). In fact, with that logic England should have 800 MPs but there we go.

Wales doesn't have 100 MPs it has 40. England has 533. This would suggest historically that what the MPs for England want it gets, surely. There is nothing wrong with diversity. If you feel that English students should not be paying so much you should lobby your MPs to get it changed. It is all to do with different priorities. Why the heck would we want to pay for 800 MPs' - it would cost millions.

[Sarah]

It would have it so that tuition fees are decided by the national parliament/assembly but then it can't be unfair on other British nations (eg; Scots can't charge the English for going to Scottish Unis etc). And it IS fair with that amount of MPs for each country, because it's roughly the proportion of population and country. I think it's stupid to have 100 MPs representing 60 million people (England) and another 100 representing 3million people (wales). In fact, with that logic England should have 800 MPs but there we go.

Which is highlighting my point earlier about overshadowed. If wales doesn't want something then it shouldn't have to put up with something because England want it. This (in my eyes) makes devolution more important.

Scotland, N.Ireland and Wales shouldn't have to have something that it potentially doesn't want because England does - Its not representing everyone just England.

[redtom]

Only read a couple of post but a few people strongly against it don't have a clue what there talking about, some of the reasons you've put are laughable. Do a bit of research before shouting your opinions.

Sorry if it sounds rude its not meant to be just cba writing it in a way which sounds all happy and nice