Computer and printer prices to rise in EU because you can print copywritten stuff

[-:Undertaker:-]

One point in regards to the last bit of your quote, if we are capable of making our own decisions then why is it down to the EU to pass them?

Like why haven't our government made laws like this before or made any of the laws considered "well thought out" by the EU?

Well it all depends on what you think a good law is - some people think the smoking ban was a great piece of legislation (which the British Government passed) while others like me think it was a terrible piece of draconian legislation. Sadly in the western world at the moment, people like me (who don't want to control the lives of other people via the state) are losing the battle whether its law coming from Westminster or Brussels.

But the point is, at least the British parliament is accountable on the decisions it takes - unlike Barroso and his gang.

[Ardemax]

Well it all depends on what you think a good law is - some people think the smoking ban was a great piece of legislation (which the British Government passed) while others like me think it was a terrible piece of draconian legislation. Sadly in the western world at the moment, people like me (who don't want to control the lives of other people via the state) are losing the battle whether its law coming from Westminster or Brussels.

But the point is, at least the British parliament is accountable on the decisions it takes - unlike Barroso and his gang.

Iraq, anyone?

Out of curiosity, did you watch the Question Time with Russell Brand on it?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Iraq, anyone?

Oh yes, well no system is infalliable - but that's more a result of the political tribalism of the public.

Out of curiosity, did you watch the Question Time with Russell Brand on it?

Afraid not, cannot stand the man. I only ever watch Question Time nowadays whenever Peter Hitchens, Nigel Farage, Douglas Murray or Melanie Phillips are on - and I literally used to watch every episode, not anymore - often the audience and panel are so detatched from reality.

[Ardemax]

Oh yes, well no system is infalliable - but that's more a result of the political tribalism of the public.



Afraid not, cannot stand the man. I only ever watch Question Time nowadays whenever Peter Hitchens, Nigel Farage, Douglas Murray or Melanie Phillips are on - and I literally used to watch every episode, not anymore - often the audience and panel are so detatched from reality.

Melanie Philips was on the panel on the same episode surprisingly. She got absolutely mauled by the panel and audience when she talked about Iran being like the biggest threat.

I'm not sure what I think of her.

[Chippiewill]

Is that the one where she suggested we should invade Iran and that they're beyond negotiating because of their religion?

[Ardemax]

Is that the one where she suggested we should invade Iran and that they're beyond negotiating because of their religion?

Yes. I believe she used the term "neutralised". It was all rather funny.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Melanie Philips was on the panel on the same episode surprisingly. She got absolutely mauled by the panel and audience when she talked about Iran being like the biggest threat.

I'm not sure what I think of her.

Yeah I certainly don't agree with her on foreign policy.

I suppose I like her for her social conservatism in certain areas the most - but again, I even like it when Galloway is on a panel because at least he makes you think and actually says something rather than saying a lot but not saying anything really at all (like most politicians). I'd rather vote for a far-left socialist/communist like Galloway or Benn than a weak empty suit like Cameron or May.

Peter Hitchens I am probably influenced by on the same level as Ron Paul, Douglas Murray can be interesting for his neoconservative take on things (although he tends to be on Melanie Phillips' side in regards to foreign policy). But yeah.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Have you ever been to America? You get the kind of cultural differences the UK has within states. Different states are radically different.

I was looking at Enoch Powell quotes before and this quote reminded me of this discussion, pretty much echoes what I have said. Just thought you might find it interesting - i've always regarded Powell as my 'chief' when it comes to the question of sovereignty and he doesn't let down in the passage I have quoted below.

What happens then when majorities in the directly elected European Assembly take decisions, or approve policies, or vote budgets which are regarded by the British electorate or by the electorate of some of the mammoth constituencies as highly offensive and prejudicial to their interests? What do the European MPs say to their constituents? They say: “Don't blame me; I had no say, nor did I and my Labour (or Conservative) colleagues, have any say in the framing of these policies”. He will then either add: “Anyhow, I voted against”; or alternatively he will add: “And don't misunderstand if I voted for this along with my German, French, and Italian pals, because if I don't help roll their logs, I shall never get them to roll any of mine”. What these pseudo-MPs will not be able to say is what any MP in a democracy must be able to say, namely, either “I voted against this, and if the majority of my party are elected next time, we will put it right”, or alternatively, “I supported this because it is part of the policy and programme for which a majority in this constituency and in the country voted at the last election and which we shall be proud to defend at the next election”. Direct elections to the European Assembly, so far from introducing democracy and democratic control, will strengthen the arbitrary and bureaucratic nature of the Community by giving a fallacious garb of elective authority to the exercise of supranational powers by institutions and persons who are – in the literal, not the abusive, sense of the word – irresponsible.

Speech in Brighton (24 October 1977), from Enoch Powell on 1992 (Anaya, 1989), pp. 19-20.

What a mind. Probably the British politician out of all in history I regard the most highly.