Florida nightclub shooting

[Evanora]

was it actually an islamic attack? i'm going by the statement the shooters father released where it's because he seen two gay men kissing.

his negative response to seeing two men kissing is an obvious result of his religion

[lemons]

whether the shooter was muslim doesn't really matter at this point

what does matter is that he was US citizen who had access to a gun

obviously introducing stricter gun laws would be tough - there must be hundreds of millions in US homes, but what annoys me is that there has been NO attempt to sort out the issue of guns

I just saw on twitter that obama is about to deliver his 18th statement after a mass shooting since be became president. 18th. i can't even recall a time cameron, brown or blair has had to do this

the usa is such a backwards and 'traditional' country despite being so developed and i'd be especially ashamed today to be a citizen

[-:Undertaker:-]

was it actually an islamic attack? i'm going by the statement the shooters father released where it's because he seen two gay men kissing. i've just gotten out of work so i've not thoroughly read through the articles yet just this thread and some of what jen linked but i'm not linking the two together or saying lewis doesn't have a right to his opinion, i just don't understand it when things like this happen and then he questions why we are still fighting for equality and acceptance when 50+ people are hurt for no reason whatsoever other than what the guys father has said, the two men he saw kissing triggered it in him

the parade raises awareness and it isn't all just about 'marching around in pink shorts' though. but i'm not just on about the parade with that statement

i hope everybody recovers fully and there's no more deaths rip to those who have died

BREAKING: Before Orlando club shooting, gunman called 911, swore allegiance to ISIS - law enforcement sources to NBC https://t.co/PhLHUG75j1

— CNBC Now (@CNBCnow) June 12, 2016

I'm sorry but again you need to get this idea out of your mind that watching a parade and day drinking is fighting for anything. It's exactly the same when, after the last Islamist attacks in France, people say they're "fighting" back with love via teddy bears, singing Imagine and candlelit vigils. That's not fighting for anything.

If I was a fanatic of any kind and I saw that kind of reaction I would literally laugh that my enemy was so weak and brow-beaten. If people wish to fight for western freedoms and values, then the fight is going to have to be an intellectual one and not one which involves yet more teddy bears and lit up public monuments everytime innocent people are shot dead in cold blood.

The fight is broad: asking why our Police forces in the western world are now no longer patrolling certain areas of our cities because of a certain religion. Asking why the German chancellor has, without consultation, abolished border controls in Europe to countries which do not share our values. Asking why Islamic religious schools and mosques are being allowed to pump out Wa'ahabist anti-western hatred funded by Saudi Arabia.

That's the fight ahead, and I don't yet get the impression people are ready for it. So standby for more public sing songs until the next inevitable attack.

whether the shooter was muslim doesn't really matter at this point

what does matter is that he was US citizen who had access to a gun

So radical Islam doesn't matter but guns - which are already controlled and which 99.9% of owners are responsible with - are what you want to talk about.

Gun bans didn't help the people in Paris or Brussels against religious fanatics. But border controls and good policing might have helped dontcha' think....

[Evanora]

"fight for equality"

[-:Undertaker:-]

Police arrested a guy with assault rifles and possible explosives who said he was headed to the L.A. Pride parade. https://t.co/bECOPQa4c4

— Matt Pearce 🦅🇺🇸 (@mattdpearce) June 12, 2016

Explosives now being mentioned and another suspect.

Yes, gun control really would have helped.

How about some, oh I don't know - BORDER CONTROL? ...and our Police not being afraid to root out home-grown extremists for fear of being branded as racist?

[The Don]

Another tragedy which could have been prevented... Such a sad waste of human lives due to another sick individual.

whether the shooter was muslim doesn't really matter at this point

what does matter is that he was US citizen who had access to a gun

obviously introducing stricter gun laws would be tough - there must be hundreds of millions in US homes, but what annoys me is that there has been NO attempt to sort out the issue of guns

I just saw on twitter that obama is about to deliver his 18th statement after a mass shooting since be became president. 18th. i can't even recall a time cameron, brown or blair has had to do this

the usa is such a backwards and 'traditional' country despite being so developed and i'd be especially ashamed today to be a citizen

+ Rep, this sort of thing is a far too common occurrence over there

- - - Updated - - -

Police arrested a guy with assault rifles and possible explosives who said he was headed to the L.A. Pride parade. https://t.co/bECOPQa4c4

— Matt Pearce 🦅🇺🇸 (@mattdpearce) June 12, 2016

Explosives now being mentioned and another suspect.

Yes, gun control really would have helped.

How about some, oh I don't know - BORDER CONTROL? ...and our Police not being afraid to root out home-grown extremists for fear of being branded as racist?

Gun control would have helped in the 23,096 incidents that have happened since the start of 2016, or in the 5,851 deaths
http://www.gunviolencearchive.org/

[-:Undertaker:-]

I just saw on twitter that obama is about to deliver his 18th statement after a mass shooting since be became president. 18th. i can't even recall a time cameron, brown or blair has had to do this

I can.

2000 1 June: Real IRA bomb on Hammersmith Bridge, London.

2000 20 September: Real IRA fired an RPG-22 at the MI6 HQ in London.

2001 4 March: Real IRA detonated a car bomb outside the BBC's main news centre in London. One London Underground worker suffered deep cuts to his eye from flying glass and some damage was caused to the front of the building.[22] (See 2001 BBC bombing)

2001 16 April: Hendon post office bombed by the Real IRA.

2001 6 May: Real IRA detonated a bomb in a London postal sorting office. One person was injured.[23]

2001 3 August: Real IRA bomb explodes in Ealing, West London, injuring seven people.[24] (See 2001 Ealing bombing)

2001 4 November: Real IRA car bomb in Birmingham.

2005 7 July: 7/7 central London bombings conducted by four separate Islamist extremist suicide bombers, which targeted civilians using the public transport system during the morning rush hour. Three bombs were detonated on three separate trains on the London Underground and one on a double-decker bus. 56 people were killed and 700 were injured. It was the UK's worst terrorist incident since the 1988 Lockerbie bombing and the first Islamist suicide attack in the country.

2007 January–February: Miles Cooper letter bomb campaign.

2007 30 June: Glasgow International Airport attack perpetrated by Islamist extremists.

2008 22 May: Exeter attempted bombing in a café toilet by an Islamist extremist, injuring only the perpetrator.

2013 29 April: Pavlo Lapshyn attacks. Lapshyn, a Ukrainian student, stabbed Mohammed Saleem, a Birmingham resident to death. He later admitted to police that he wished to start a "race war". Lapshyn later detonated a home-made bomb outside a mosque in Walsall on 21 June. 150 homes were evacuated but no person was injured.[26] On 28 May Lapshyn detonated a second home-made bomb near a mosque in Wolverhampton, and attacked a mosque in Tipton with an improvised explosive device containing nails on 12 July. Friday prayers were delayed that day, and so his intended victims were still inside. Laphsyn was later sentenced to serve a minimum of 40 years.

2013 22 May: A British soldier, Lee Rigby, was murdered in an attack in Woolwich by Michael Adebolajo and Michael Adebowale, two Islamist extremists armed with a handgun and a number of bladed implements. Both men were sentenced to life imprisonment, with Adebolajo given a whole life order and Adebowale ordered to serve at least 45 years.

2015 5 December: Three people are stabbed at Leytonstone tube station in east London, with one person suffering severe knife injuries; police subsequently announced that they were treating the stabbings as a 'terrorist incident'.[31] Video footage emerged following the stabbing of the attacker repeatedly shouting "this is for Syria", in reference to the Royal Air Force's bombing of the Islamic State in Syria, which had commenced on 3 December after parliamentary approval

This list doesn't include aborted attacks which, thankfully, had been foiled by security services.

But as in Belgium, security sevices will only be able to stretch this far for so long before the problem spirals out of control as it has there.

Gun control would have helped in the 23,096 incidents that have happened since the start of 2016, or in the 5,851 deaths

Many of those will be accidental shootings, gang shootings or home-invasion/self-defence shootings including accidental shootings.

Gun control but legal firearms exists in America as it does in Switzerland, yet the Swiss do not have this problem. It's more complex than guns = bad.

[lemons]

So radical Islam doesn't matter but guns - which are already controlled and which 99.9% of owners are responsible with - are what you want to talk about.

Gun bans didn't help the people in Paris or Brussels against religious fanatics. But border controls and good policing might have helped dontcha' think....

My point isn't about radical Islam and yes I know it's a huge issue

I am only talking about what is going on in the US, so I'm unsure why you have even brought up Paris and Brussels. What happened there is a rare occurence whereas in the US these mass shootings are happening too often

[The Don]

Dan talking about border control, the shooter was born in the USA. How about looking at the real issue which is clearly one involving guns and not borders.

[lemons]

I can.
...

again, I'm talking about mass shootings not bombs, stabbings etc despite how devastating those events are