Tier 4 as the government cancels Christmas for millions

[-:Undertaker:-]

Spoke to 3 Britons in the airport yesterday who each told me they were not going to follow isolation/mask rules when they arrived back home.

Interestingly, I was interviewed in the Spanish airport by a Spanish TV channel regarding the news of the new strain and closures, as well as the Coronavirus situation in general and I told them I thought the whole thing was overblown and absurd. Whether it'll make it to the airwaves who knows.

I can't answer for them i just feel you can't say a lockdown isn't working when people aren't following it. People are complaining about them trying to be stricter but surely if people didn't break the rules there wouldn't be any need for stricter rules.

I'm not saying everything would be perfect but I do think we'd be in a better position if they had acted faster in the start and locked down quicker and then did it for longer. I feel we are going to keep getting these little lockdowns and I'd rather just do one long strict one

Sent from my SM-G970F using Tapatalk

How many lockdowns do we need before we accept they do not work and in fact do more damage than they prevent?

It is no good blaming the public for an unworkable policy. I am sure we could in theory eradicate nits if we all shaved our heads, but is it realistic?

If people were to follow the rules and that then I think Tier 4 would of not been in place by this point, we just got to hope that the oxford vaccine gets approved soon/Hopefully by the new year. I just hope that the UK won't need a third lockdown. School and colleges staying which I don't thinks helps as well given the rise in case of sorts of places.

Almost every country that has done lockdowns has failed because you cannot eradicate an airborne virus that is endemic.

How many more people are going to miss cancer screenings, life saving operations and die alone before we say this is becoming dangerously fanatical?

[buttons]

never thought we should have had the 5 days without rules in the first place

[-:Undertaker:-]

never thought we should have had the 5 days without rules in the first place

Isn't it more prudent to step away from sweeping measures like that and actually look at the evidence before closing millions of shops costing hundreds of thousands of people their jobs, ruining Christmas for the entire country, denying old people some of which will be their last Christmas with their families...?

Evidence such as this:

It seems now as if there's a constant race to become the most authoritarian, extreme and iron-fisted despite the actual evidence and statistics out there.

[dbgtz]

have you read the full "report" from nick triggle or did you just decide to not bother looking it up yourself

[-:Undertaker:-]

have you read the full "report" from nick triggle or did you just decide to not bother looking it up yourself

No, I haven't been listening to the tripe pumped out by the BBC or Sky News. After all, after being subjected to months of scaremongering by Kay Burley and Beth Rigby, both were caught along with dozens of other Sky News staff, partying and kissing one another in a London bar. Even they don't believe the nonsense they parrot. Scaring the general public with red flashing numbers of quite normal death rates among the very old and very sick, whilst the very same journalists/politicians/scientists don't follow their own arbitrary rules.

No, what one must do is look at the figures. And the figures quite clearly show that:

- Hospitals across the country are at normal capacity and even at times under normal capacity for this time of year.
- Victims of Coronavirus are those aged 80+ with chronic and often multiple co-morbidities, near the end of their lives.

Here is a stat from imperial. Age-specific IFRs 0.1% and below for individuals under 40 years increasing to 5% among over 80's. So under 40 you have more than 99.9% chance surviving and over 80 a 95% chance. Thats if you catch it in the first place. Thats easy to understand?

— Renée Hoenderkamp (@DrHoenderkamp) December 19, 2020

We ought to examine the actual evidence rather than dodgy models and projections released by the government that were slammed by the UK Statistics Authority.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I forgot to post this actually which made me laugh and roll my eyes with two other passengers I was speaking with.

On Sunday when in a Spanish airport, we were queuing for our boarding passes for a RyanAir flight back to Britain. About 3 times in 30 minutes, a Spanish airport worker was shouting at passengers to keep to the 2 metre social distancing rule while in the queue. Then, we [the same people in the queue] got on the plane and we were sitting elbow to elbow with the flight at full capacity, breathing in the same recycled air for 2 hours and 20 minutes.

Farcical, unhinged, absurd, ridiculous, comical, a charade.

Almost as illogical as the arbitrary rule that you can't drink a pint in a pub, but you can drink a pint provided it is accompanied by a Chicken Tikka Balti.

Or the one where you can't hug or even visit your grandmother for a year, but your grandmother can go into a supermarket and handle coins and bank notes.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Wales, which has had some of the strictest and most frequent lockdowns in Britain, is now seeing cases spiral upwards.

But will cloth ears Generalissimo Drakeford finally get it into his skull that lockdowns do not work? Don't bet the house on it.

[Yupt]

I'm going to ignore all the comments here practically encouraging others to break the restrictions designed to help us and instead comment on 'emptier beds' statistic thats being thrown around in here regarding hospitals instead.

I'm not sure how this data is collected, and frankly I'm incredibly sceptical about it, however I would like to pass on what I've been told by various friends and indeed my own partner who all work for the NHS in different areas and including the ICU - and that's that beds are at max capacity, and unfortunately more and more of them are being filled by health care workers themselves who have caught the virus. Now I'm not saying the system is perfect, it's certainly true that there are many suffering through non-covid related issues that perhaps require the aid of the NHS more than those of which are currently getting attended to, however I think it un-wise and selfish to spread articles and slander the restrictions based on what a twitter user is reporting.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm going to ignore all the comments here practically encouraging others to break the restrictions designed to help us and instead comment on 'emptier beds' statistic thats being thrown around in here regarding hospitals instead.

I'm not sure how this data is collected, and frankly I'm incredibly sceptical about it, however I would like to pass on what I've been told by various friends and indeed my own partner who all work for the NHS in different areas and including the ICU - and that's that beds are at max capacity, and unfortunately more and more of them are being filled by health care workers themselves who have caught the virus. Now I'm not saying the system is perfect, it's certainly true that there are many suffering through non-covid related issues that perhaps require the aid of the NHS more than those of which are currently getting attended to, however I think it un-wise and selfish to spread articles and slander the restrictions based on what a twitter user is reporting.

It's NHS data being reported by the BBC, not "slander from a Twitter user".

The beds are not at max capacity, that is an outrageous falsehood for you to spread that is not backed by any statistics. They aren't even at normal capacity.

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-54712003

Despite the rising number of admissions, only about one in 15 UK hospital beds are occupied by a Covid patient.

What we can't say - because up-to-date figures are not being published by NHS bosses - is exactly how full hospitals actually are. In recent years, hospitals tend to have had about 90% of beds occupied at any one time.

In the summer, when the last audit was done, this had dropped to below 70% - there were few Covid cases and levels of non-Covid work were still below normal. Even taking into account the rise in Covid admissions, it probably leaves hospitals with thousands more beds than normal at this time last year.

"Hospitals effectively have between 10% and 30% less capacity than they would normally. You cannot expect every bed to be full."

[-:Undertaker:-]

*REMOVED*

Thread edited by ,jamiexo (Forum Moderator). Please do not use inappropriate language, thank you.