The BNP - Good or Bad?

[Tash.]

Look, I tell you what, I will point out some quotes for you so that you can fulfill your wish to defend them. I will be immensely shocked if you write anything other than "how do I know it can be trusted" because these things are indefensible.

Nigel Farage (UKIP MEP since 1999, leader of the UKIP group of MEPs in the
European Parliament since 2004; former UKIP Chairman, 1998-2000 and cofounder,
UKIP) told former UKIP leader Dr Alan Sked “We will never win the
****** vote. The ******* will never vote for us”, according to Dr Sked.

You cannot say that is not racist, those terms are not allowed hence i've starred them out, however if you refer to the document you can find the terms.

Frank Maloney (UKIP candidate in the 2004 London mayoral election) commented
that he would not be campaigning in Camden because there are “too many gays”.
He said “I don’t want to campaign around gays… I don’t think they do a lot for
society”. Protesting that he was not homophobic, Maloney then added “In public
let’s live a proper moral life – I think that’s important”.

Homphobic wouldn't you say?

Dr Alan Sked (founder leader of UKIP, 1993-97) has told us that when it comes to
immigration policy, “UKIP is even less liberal than the BNP. Certainly, there is a
symbiosis between elements of the parties”.

Said by the founder, I mean can you get deeper into a parties roots than that? All these quotes have a date and issue related to them, i'm sure if you were that concerned over their reliability you could source out the archives for such things.

[Seatherny]

Look, I tell you what, I will point out some quotes for you so that you can fulfill your wish to defend them. I will be immensely shocked if you write anything other than "how do I know it can be trusted" because these things are indefensible.



You cannot say that is not racist, those terms are not allowed hence i've starred them out, however if you refer to the document you can find the terms.




Homphobic wouldn't you say?



Said by the founder, I mean can you get deeper into a parties roots than that? All these quotes have a date and issue related to them, i'm sure if you were that concerned over their reliability you could source out the archives for such things.

I can see the reply being "these are opinions of the individual and not the parties"
But if your higher level party leaders believe in such terrible things then these will surely influence the parties decisions. If someone disagrees then :rolleyes:

[-:Undertaker:-]

Look, I tell you what, I will point out some quotes for you so that you can fulfill your wish to defend them. I will be immensely shocked if you write anything other than "how do I know it can be trusted" because these things are indefensible.

The majority of them can't be trusted, hence why the main Labour Party and others do not refer to UKIP as racist, because it isn't racist.

You cannot say that is not racist, those terms are not allowed hence i've starred them out, however if you refer to the document you can find the terms.

I simply do not believe that. Although if Nigel Farage did say them words then a poor choice of words, but the fact is; UKIP would never get the immigration vote because UKIP wants to stop immigration. If Farage had said that then he wouldn't be invited (quite frequently) onto TV/have such a respectable place among media circles such as the Telegraphy. If you can find more evidence on this claim then i'd be happy to read it and very interested aswell.

Homphobic wouldn't you say?

I would not say that was homophobic, I don't agree with gay marriage and although i'm gay myself, I know some people aren't comfortable/happy with the idea of homosexuality - its how they've been brought up and their opinion, they are doing me no malice.

Said by the founder, I mean can you get deeper into a parties roots than that? All these quotes have a date and issue related to them, i'm sure if you were that concerned over their reliability you could source out the archives for such things.

Dr Alan Sked if anyone actually has read anything on him, hates UKIP and doesn't get along well with them, hence why he fell out with them. Therefore he will say these things won't he. I think the cxlear difference between the UKIP immigration policy and the BNP immigration policy are these;

• Policy not based on race (UKIP)
• Policy based on race (BNP)
• Temporary 5-year blanket ban on immigration (UKIP)
• Permanent ban on immigration (BNP)

I can see the reply being "these are opinions of the individual and not the parties"
But if your higher level party leaders believe in such terrible things then these will surely influence the parties decisions. If someone disagrees then :rolleyes:

Do not get involved, you had numerous chances to quote the document but failed at every chance you got.

[Seatherny]

The majority of them can't be trusted

I simply do not believe that.

Why do you ask us to quote things and reply with such crap as that?
Like I said, if the quotes were false, the author would have been sue'd by now or been forced to remove the false quote and issue a formal apology.

[Tash.]

The majority of them can't be trusted, hence why the main Labour Party and others do not refer to UKIP as racist, because it isn't racist.

The point is that these were all once members of UKIP and something within that parties manifest made these people join. So, what is it within UKIP that apparently attracts people who in your words "can't be trusted"?

I simply do not believe that. Although if Nigel Farage did say them words then a poor choice of words, but the fact is; UKIP would never get the immigration vote because UKIP wants to stop immigration. If Farage had said that then he wouldn't be invited (quite frequently) onto TV/have such a respectable place among media circles such as the Telegraphy. If you can find more evidence on this claim then i'd be happy to read it and very interested aswell.

I can't see how you can deny he said it. As people have said before, that is a pretty bad quote. If the paper in question had printed him saying such things then do you not imagine he may have sued them for libel? It's not something you'd just let go if you know you've not said it.

I would not say that was homophobic, I don't agree with gay marriage and although i'm gay myself, I know some people aren't comfortable/happy with the idea of homosexuality - its how they've been brought up and their opinion, they are doing me no malice.

Perhaps not directly, but do you not realise that by denouncing those who are gay they are almost ridiculing your choices in life? It seems to me that you don't let many things bother you, and more power to you if thats true. But the fact is that some people will find that deeply offensive to the way they wish to live their lives.

Dr Alan Sked if anyone actually has read anything on him, hates UKIP and doesn't get along well with them, hence why he fell out with them. Therefore he will say these things won't he. I think the cxlear difference between the UKIP immigration policy and the BNP immigration policy are these;

• Policy not based on race (UKIP)
• Policy based on race (BNP)
• Temporary 5-year blanket ban on immigration (UKIP)
• Permanent ban on immigration (BNP)

Again, he may now dislike UKIP but he founded the party and you cannot tell me that every single aspect or ideal that he instilled into it is gone? Therefore the party is based upon a founder who is admitting that the party is now in the grips of having similarities with the BNP. No link with the BNP is a positive one.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Why do you ask us to quote things and reply with such crap as that?
Like I said, if the quotes were false, the author would have been sue'd by now or been forced to remove the false quote and issue a formal apology.

I gave more than that of a reply, now you refused to quote or even explain why UKIP were racist/homophobic, or has the fact Tash is here changed it all I wonder.

The point is that these were all once members of UKIP and something within that parties manifest made these people join. So, what is it within UKIP that apparently attracts people who in your words "can't be trusted"?

Euro-sceptics are attracted to UKIP, UKIP was founded as a Tory-Bruges cut off group but was supposed to have the single purpose of opposition to the European Union while uniting all from left to right, whereas the Bruges group was famously to the right.

I can't see how you can deny he said it. As people have said before, that is a pretty bad quote. If the paper in question had printed him saying such things then do you not imagine he may have sued them for libel? It's not something you'd just let go if you know you've not said it.

I want to see evidence that Farage said this, he's not at all the type of man who would put race on people. If he did, it was a off-comment - a comment most people have said one or two times before.

Perhaps not directly, but do you not realise that by denouncing those who are gay they are almost ridiculing your choices in life? It seems to me that you don't let many things bother you, and more power to you if thats true. But the fact is that some people will find that deeply offensive to the way they wish to live their lives.

Gay isn't a choice. On if they are offended, if they are offended then so be it. Live with it i'd say to them. The man in question (if he said this) said nothing homophobic what so ever.

Again, he may now dislike UKIP but he founded the party and you cannot tell me that every single aspect or ideal that he instilled into it is gone? Therefore the party is based upon a founder who is admitting that the party is now in the grips of having similarities with the BNP. No link with the BNP is a positive one.

I can, the party is nothing like it was a few years ago. UKIP was merely a pressure group a few years ago, under Farage its become more mainstream (coming 2nd in the last election in this country) and has become far more professional in its methods of campaigning. On the link with the BNP, yes a link with the BNP can be good, both oppose mass-immigration. I find that common sense, although I do not approve of basing immigration policy on race like the BNP does.

[Seatherny]

I gave more than that of a reply, now you refused to quote or even explain why UKIP were racist/homophobic, or has the fact Tash is here changed it all I wonder.

Like I have said several times now, I did not see the point in copying and pasting stuff from the document when you can clearly use your eyes and see them for yourself and you have seen it as you said you have read it. All Tash has done is copied and pasted the quotes as you are too ignorant.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Like I have said several times now, I did not see the point in copying and pasting stuff from the document when you can clearly use your eyes and see them for yourself and you have seen it as you said you have read it. All Tash has done is copied and pasted the quotes as you are too ignorant.

No Tash is discussing it, as am I. You are still going on about links. You didn't want to discuss it, end of.

[Seatherny]

No she has just copied and pasted the quotes and you just refuse to believe them as we both predicted, so you are just wasting our time by telling us to pick a quote to debate when you simply refuse to believe it. That is a very poor debating skill which you seem to have.

Like we have said several times, if those quotes were false, the author would have been sue'd by now and asked to make a formal apology as well as remove the quote.

[Ardemax]

So if you're saying I can openly deny something without solid evidence then I could deny anything? What about if there's rock hard evidence?