Conservatives remain divided over EU

[GommeInc]

I don't get this idea that we need the EU to better understand our european neighbours... The dutch, germans, infact every european country understands us and we understand them. Heck, our relationships must be good with them if they've freely allowed royalty to run around pre-EU for hundreds of years - Queen Elizabeth I, that King/Prince of the House of Orange in Holland who got married to one of our members of royalty decades ago. Heck, we've got germans and greeks sitting in the royal family who have been there since pre-EU. How can you improve said relationships?

The benefits of the EU are only the trade and jobs, that's all anyone ever wanted - not a superstate that seems to not be wanted and knocks down what were strong foundations that gave each and every EU country some form of individuality. It's probably safe to say it ruined most of the countries in the recession. At least the UK kept a strong grip, considering we're just one small nation compared to the many countries within the Euro - imagine the UK as a fat man who lost a bit of weight during the recession, and the EU made up of loads of small, skinny men who make up the same with as the UK man. We held through why the EU really didn't make much difference (best example I could think of ). If we joined the Euro, we would of flopped down anyway and it wouldn't of made us any better off.

That as far as I've understood at least. The EU has its benefits, but I really don't see why they need a governing body as such, when all that is needed to make up the EU table are transport and trade folk, to make sure it's all going to plan. Not President Blogs of the United State of Europa.

[LuketheDuke]

I have replied to you mate, Ive explained simple economics to you and what the EU actually does just you buy into the UKIP message and I dont.

Youve replied to my statements like...

"40 Million... Referendum" "40 Million... Referendum"

Well OK I accept those things but Ive tried to argue that as a single unitary state things would be more difficult. I hate the fact that money makes the world go around but at the moment its important to have stability, and moving out the EU is an unkown entity that isnt worth the risk

I may be bias as well just dont label me, thanks.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have replied to you mate, Ive explained simple economics to you and what the EU actually does just you buy into what UKIP want you to hear.

Youve replied to my statements like a telephone recording message

"40 Million... Referendum" "40 Million... Referendum"

I may be bias as well just dont label me, thanks.

You ignored my points on business, regulations, agriculture, relations and farming, instead choosing to repeat what I had just replied to. I have barely mentioned the £40 million a day, as the issue we have been speaking about is not solely the membership fee, it is the affect on business and industry.

GommeInc has just hit the nail on the head.

[GommeInc]

That's a point, aren't the EU effecting small fishing and farming communities in some areas, who struggle to make a living or to make deadlines? The UK have very good, sustainable waters which can't be fished into because of EU rules and regulations - what maybe necessary for France and water located areas isn't for us, because we've got lots of water and should be able to fish as much as we like, especially when there hasn't ever been over-fishing. Fish is one of the basic food stuff that we're good and famous for. I'd be amazed if the EU effect Tiptree Jam though, but very unlikely

[LuketheDuke]

Er but I explained to you that British business would be minimized if we withdrew from the EU, which could only be bad for economy. And lol what points did you make on agriculture or industry!?!?, Ive re-read our debate and youve said nothing on the EU's policy towards agriculture, or industry. I raised those points and you replied saying "unelected beaurocrats" and "we need a referendum" :S

Also GommeInc EU regulations on fishing is a good thing, it means sustainability is promoted for fish populations which means their numbers don't dwindle. The only downside is that people go elsewhere like the South Pacific which woz on ze tele Sunday night, although thats only Spain.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Hang on, they are our fishing stocks so why can we not decide when our stocks need replenishing/do not need replenishing? - why do the fishermen/farmers in both France and the Unted Kingdom hold protests against EU regulations if they are so great? - because they are the ones who are out there every day doing the work, not the burocrats in Brussels who think they know better than the people whose families have been fishing/farming for decades.

It is not up to the EU to tell us when to fish our own fish and if our vegtables are not straight enough, we can do that ourselves fine thank you and we have done since this country was formed.

[LuketheDuke]

Maybe so as a continent we can protect certain species that are under threat?

The only reason people have been protesting is because they can't catch as much as they want. Harsh maybe but neccessary if staple pescetarian foods are to survive.

Just call me a left wing looney!!

[GommeInc]

Also GommeInc EU regulations on fishing is a good thing, it means sustainability is promoted for fish populations which means their numbers don't dwindle. The only downside is that people go elsewhere like the South Pacific which woz on ze tele Sunday night, although thats only Spain.

No it won't, we grossly underfish in this country and have never over fished. The number we want to fish to (but can't thanks to the EU) will continue a sustainable amount, and more. Before the fishing regulations in the EU came about we regulated how much to fish and what not to make sure fish populations don't dwindle, aswell as kept off shore fish farms which were given good food for cheap price - on TV the other night the EU regulators want fishermen to use crappy food stuff which costs alot and doesn't have many benefits. With the clearly pointless EU regulations, the fishing market has unnecessarily dropped, and fishing is one thing Britain is famous for - fish and chips (cod, plaice, salmon etc). :/

Also, the European Union don't monitor fish, they never have, they just made up the rules willy nilly for the sake of being annoying - as with technology and business.

The North Sea is where the French fish (and are also annoyed by the EU because there are plenty of fish, but the EU feel the need to make people suffer) and some of the British fishermen fish in there too, yet they can't because they're limited for no reason - protecting fish species/numbers is ludicrous, the numbers have never dropped, they're fearing they will with no evidence. Between Ireland, Cornwall and Scotland are British waters where British fishermen fish, we should be controlling them, not some union which has no clue.

[LuketheDuke]

No it won't, we grossly underfish in this country and have never over fished. The number we want to fish to (but can't thanks to the EU) will continue a sustainable amount, and more. Before the fishing regulations in the EU came about we regulated how much to fish and what not to make sure fish populations don't dwindle, aswell as kept off shore fish farms which were given good food for cheap price - on TV the other night the EU regulators want fishermen to use crappy food stuff which costs alot and doesn't have many benefits. With the clearly pointless EU regulations, the fishing market has unnecessarily dropped, and fishing is one thing Britain is famous for - fish and chips (cod, plaice, salmon etc). :/

Also, the European Union don't monitor fish, they never have, they just made up the rules willy nilly for the sake of being annoying - as with technology and business.

Urm Im not actually part of that industry just what Ive read and seen on the news says that its been dwindling over many years due to the depletion of stocks due to over use of the seas around our country and others. The EU does have fishing quotas I think and if what I said is true I cant see it being a bad thing. Like I said thats what Ive picked up on so if theres any links to suggest otherwise Id read them.

I think theres a stigma on the EU that they're a bunch of bad guys, before we lament them we should try and sort out our own sleazy government and parliament first.

[-:Undertaker:-]

GommeInc has hit the nail on the head yet again, regulation after regulation from the European Union yet it has no purpose/is only to overrule sovereign national parliaments.

Your right our own parliament was corrupt, the only difference being that we elected our parliament whereas we didn't elect the EU commision/council who create over 75% of our laws. We can throw out our corrupt politicians at the ballot box, we cannot throw out the corrupt senior EU eurocrats as we didn't even elect them in the first place.

We have shown in example after example how useless the European Union is, and its only aim is and always was to create a superstate - the same aim that the Third Reich and Soviet Union had/achieved.