Thanks to the Conservatives

[Jordy]

What ever happened to this once great empire. Oh wait, the war... right.

It disappeared, perhaps we should bring our armed forces in line with this. We have the second/third most military expenditure, it just doesn't make sense anymore.

If we ever did get attacked here somehow I don't see what use having planes on a boat will do, seems like it might be a better idea to have them here ready for defensive purposes, or if we really need to have them out in other countries I'm fairly sure we're still capable of building an airbase, it's not only the Polish who can do manual labour

That's exactly what I was thinking. What is absolutely vital is defending Britain (Trident + RAF Jets) and supporting our current mission in Afghanistan (Troop numbers, vehicles + Chinooks) not an Aircraft carrier which really isn't that useful in either of those. It's far better that an ageing aircraft carrier is cut than the alternative of something like Trident, RAF Jets, Chinooks, Troop numbers etc.

Can I just ask, during the election weren't the conservatives slating the labour party for not providing enough support in the ways of military ships, planes, boats and weaponary and now the tories themselves are cutting this sort of thing themselves?

Clappity clap tories what else are we going to bring down now?

The Tories attacked Labour lots on the poor equipment they had in Afghanstan, the lack of Helicopters, SNATCH Land Rovers and poor body armour in particular rather than things such as Aircraft Carriers.

You'll find out tomorrow what else is going down in the spending review announcements. So when you hear of "Tory cuts!" don't be surprised. Oh and also remember it's a coalition government, so if you intend on carrying on about how savage the Tories are, don't forget about the Lib Dems k?

Jut heard about all the cuts. All I'm saying is if countries like Argentina wanted to re take islands such as the Falklands we wouldn't be able to diddly **** about it.

So one aircraft carrier is the difference between defending them and surrendering them? Nahhhh.

Not so. Our forces are massively overstretched as it is when it comes to overseas deployments. Not so much now we have withdrawn from Iraq, but when you have operational deployments in Cyprus, Afghanistan, Sierra Leone, Kenya, Gibraltar and the Falklands as well as numerous other places around the world offering varying numbers of soldiers. In the event of a large scale war resulting from ongoing diplomatic unease with eastern countries we would be in a difficult position. The fact we are an island gives us a strategic advantage but in this day and age that advantage isn't massive and it plays no bearing on the fact that, should war break out, we would be facing a shortage of soldiers.

As I'm sure you're well aware, within 24 hours most the troops all over the world could be re-positioned anywhere else in the world. Should anything kick off we would withdraw from Afghanistan almost instantly. As I've said, the cuts have been careful to allow Britain to still have defences and continue the fighting in Afghanistan. Surely you agree it's better that an old aircraft carrier gets decommissioned rather than something like Trident being scrapped or the Chinook order cancelled.

[xxMATTGxx]

Jut heard about all the cuts. All I'm saying is if countries like Argentina wanted to re take islands such as the Falklands we wouldn't be able to diddly **** about it.

I'm sure they brought the Falklands up again some months back if anyone remembers the thread we had on it. Well they just scrapped the harriers which were our only aircraft to be able to use aircraft carriers and we will have nothing like it for around 10 years or so. I'm not currently sure what kind of equipment we have over there if that would be case of Argentina wanting it back within months time. I guess we could send in some submarines and Type 45 destroyers to solve that.

[Jordy]

I'm sure they brought the Falklands up again some months back if anyone remembers the thread we had on it. Well they just scrapped the harriers which were our only aircraft to be able to use aircraft carriers and we will have nothing like it for around 10 years or so. I'm not currently sure what kind of equipment we have over there if that would be case of Argentina wanting it back within months time. I guess we could send in some submarines and Type 45 destroyers to solve that.

1300 troops, RAF Typhoons and a Navy boat are always stationed there, and that's not to say more couldn't be sent within days and the continual trident deterrent.

[immense]

Jut heard about all the cuts. All I'm saying is if countries like Argentina wanted to re take islands such as the Falklands we wouldn't be able to diddly **** about it.

Not sure anyone would care.

You keep clinging to that belief whilst the rest of the world wakes up. Germany has already started. They don't want to integrate with us, they just want free land and resources.

Ignorance.

Just had to pick out these silly posts. Tories are scum.

[-:Undertaker:-]

we're an island and we don't need a big army.

Yes we do, we have various oversea territories which need protecting (namely Gibralter and the Falkland Islands).

As for these cuts to the military, stupid - I know. However first the blame lies foremost with the Labour Party who got us into crippling debt in the first place (the recession was worldwide, debt is a seperate issue which Labour failed to control). Secondly one must ask; why is the EU/foreign aid ringfenced rather than the military?

The idea that our military doesn't need to be massive is invalid - our military is already rather small compared to the former percentage of GDP we previously spent on the armed forces. The military budget (especially that of the Navy) needs to be greatly increased if anything - especially as we are fighting the war that is Afghanistan of which none of our politicians can give a reason to why we are fighting there.

[Nixt]

As I'm sure you're well aware, within 24 hours most the troops all over the world could be re-positioned anywhere else in the world. Should anything kick off we would withdraw from Afghanistan almost instantly. As I've said, the cuts have been careful to allow Britain to still have defences and continue the fighting in Afghanistan. Surely you agree it's better that an old aircraft carrier gets decommissioned rather than something like Trident being scrapped or the Chinook order cancelled.

In the event anything did kick off, we could redeploy our soldiers very quickly, correct. However first response to any large scale war involves launching aircraft from sea in order to clear the way for ground deployment. If we were required to invade a country, for the sake of argument let's just say Iran, our immediate air support would be severely inhibited by the fact we aren't able to launch from the sea. It's not likely, no, but these cuts run deep and beyond just the decommissioning of an aircraft carrier.

The loss of 7,000 personnel in the army, for example, overstretches an already overstretched service even further. Our overseas commitments are vast and wide - and agree or disagree with them, the current government has an obligation to ensure that the army and the other services are in a position to maintain these commitments for as long as necessary. They've just made it a hell of a lot more difficult for everyone.

In the long term, the decisions he has made in this review make sense - the increase in the number of Chinook helicopters, the decision to continue with the building of the two new aircraft carriers and so forth. Short term though, he is making the UK from a military point of a view, a laughing stock without fundamental capabilities that today all modern nations have available.

[GommeInc]

Hmm, a better approach would be to hold a Labour, Tory and Lib Dem meeting in Parliament where every member must attend, as well as every Lord. Then, you do what Guy Fawkes planned and blow it up. Simples, you don't have the Labour Party who do not understand the value of money, you won't get the Tories who lie to get into office as well as their long lost brother the Lib Dems.

Being more realistic though, cutting away from the EU would be a better option, it serves no real purpose seeing as it appears to take rather than give, the money we spend on the EU could easily do everything here - tuitions, military and, the only thing I've seen EU funding being used for, roads and new buildings. Lets face it, the EU is only there to put countries in debt, not actually help with any costs

[Agnostic Bear]

Ignorance.

Just had to pick out these silly posts. Tories are scum.

An entire country saying that it doesn't work is ignorance. Why not go tell the Germans they're ignorant?

[jam666]

Jut heard about all the cuts. All I'm saying is if countries like Argentina wanted to re take islands such as the Falklands we wouldn't be able to diddly **** about it.

Im sorry, but what are they going to do?, send a fleet of fishing boats to capture the island with fishing nets?, the simple answer is No. Whilst we do need defending and need to defend places like falklands etc there is really only a very slim chance of argentina actually doing any damage.

As for the cuts, Do i agree with them all? No. Do they have to be done? YES ABSOLUTELY!. You can sit here and complain about this and that but at the end of the day we have a huge deficit and it needs to come down dramatically and this is through CUTS.

To those of you who say bring back labour etc well please stop and think for a minute. Who caused the defecit in the first place? LABOUR. Does labour have a plan to tackle the defecit? NO. Until they do dont even mention them as they are practically irrelevant in curing the problem when they caused it in the first place.

[immense]

An entire country saying that it doesn't work is ignorance. Why not go tell the Germans they're ignorant?

We do not live in Germany. England has one of the highest rates of assimilation in the world. I think that's fundamentally because none of our ancestors were actually born in England.