Rule A5: Continued

[Chippiewill]

Redtiz has nothing to do with fansites, for as long as Habbo have had a fansite way they have made sure it is stuck to, we know this because if there's something wrong they are on our backs instantly.

Regardless, you have a self enforced obligation to moderate within the rules which includes enforcing non-violation of habbo T&Cs which trading habbo furni for Runescape stuff is.

That AND they probably aren't interested in the runescape forum too much anyway.

[Hecktix]

Regardless, you have a self enforced obligation to moderate within the rules which includes enforcing non-violation of habbo T&Cs which trading habbo furni for Runescape stuff is.

That AND they probably aren't interested in the runescape forum too much anyway.

Which we do and if there are any issues they are pointed out in feedback and reacted to promptly by the relevant department managers.

[Chippiewill]

Which we do and if there are any issues they are pointed out in feedback and reacted to promptly by the relevant department managers.

Fine but what Catzsy said about being informed about the problem was wrong, you should not wait to be told off to fix it.

[Hecktix]

Fine but what Catzsy said about being informed about the problem was wrong, you should not wait to be told off to fix it.

That depends really, if it would seem that our members benefit from such activity and we believe Sulake are aware of it (or in Runescapes case, dont have clear rules against it) then we will allow it as long as it's not highly illegal as in the case with these small things we would just get an email asking us to change the rules if they changed their mind - there should be no issue with doing that.

In this case Jagex have cleared their rules up and we've been made aware of it so we'll change it to suit them as now they are clear on it and appear to be quite strict.

If it's likely we can get away with minor things and it benefits our members we'll do it.

[nvrspk4]

1) Redtiz does deal with Habbo Fansites sometimes, but is not the only one that frequently visits our forums. We get several, and when they don't like something they email management about it and it has always been promptly dealt with, I assume this was no different.

2) Habbo has been contacted about this very issue in the past, and did not request that Habbox change it

3) Habbox's stance on the issue was that we would enforce Habbo's rules proactively, however we could not attempt to enforce the rules of every game everywhere. Therefore the decision was made that we would enforce Habbo T&C violation but other games, such as Runescape, we would be reactive and change things as they requested. Of course management is free to change this policy, but I would advocate keeping it.

4) RS has contacted us about account trading and other things. RuneScape, contrary to Redtiz, does scour our Runescape forums and trading Habbo for RS is and has always been very prevalent.

5) We have never been contacted about Habbo RS trading in my time at Habbox, and since Oli says that they have also not been contacted, it isn't a huge jump to say that Habbox has never been contacted.

You have no property interest in Habbo® Credits, Premium Subscriptions, your avatar, virtual items (e.g., Habbo® Furni or rares), which remain the exclusive property of Sulake subject only to your limited, non-transferable revocable license to use such for in-game play subject to these Terms and Conditions of Sale and the Terms of Use.

This does not counter Habbo-RS trading.

1) This says that just because you buy a piece of furniture with credits does not mean that it now belongs to you and that you can repost it and use it in your own game for example, now that you have "purchased" it.
2) This is put in place to deal with bans, essentially saying that when they terminate your license to play, you are not eligible for refunds or recompensation as that furni/subscription was granted under this license
3) Use for "in-game play". Trading is in-game play, even if you are giving it away.

The intention of these rules is not at all to prevent Habbo-RS trading. As a matter of fact, I'm not even sure if there are Habbo bans for that, though there are bans for RWT.

Habbo® Credits, and Premium Subscriptions have no monetary value, are non-refundable and cannot be used to purchase or use products or services other than in-game play offered by Sulake (e.g., Habbo® Furni (defined below) or Habbo® Games).

IMO that means that you can't go up to Sulake and say, here's a hundred credits, can you send me a new phone? It's not definitive at all, and I'd say here again you're misinterpreting their intentions to protect themselves from lawsuits for recompensation for premium subscriptions or Habbo credits.

[Catzsy]

Regardless, you have a self enforced obligation to moderate within the rules which includes enforcing non-violation of habbo T&Cs which trading habbo furni for Runescape stuff is.That AND they probably aren't interested in the runescape forum too much anyway.

Do you actually read the replys to your posts?

I already explained here why the part in bold is not violation and nvrspk4 has confirmed this above.

My previous reply:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthrea...34#post6940034

Okay to violate the intellectual property would be to breach their copyright without permission. This doesn't happen. To have no property interest just means they retain the right of beneficial ownership of the items and as a habbo member you have a licence to use them in the game of habbo. This is quite common for virtual games. You could not possibly play with the items outside of the game anyway. Every member of Habbo has a licence to play with them so I don't see any bar on trading just that your licence to play is non-transferable. This makes sense as account trading/selling is not allowed and neither is trading for cash. Nothing I can see backs up your argument that you cannot trade habbo for RS or vice versa. The rules are quite clear on Runescape now as Wiizz pointed out. If it was I am sure Habbo would be in contact about it.

Any comments on this?

[Pyroka]

I'm just putting my opinions out here, and something that I know a few people will be thinking now but Habbo to Runescape trades have always been frowned upon. At one point I swear people were being banned for it, but they have always been frowned upon by everyone. I've played Runescape a month, and Habbo for almost 6 years and I know that. I don't see how Habbox can even go onto almost defend their decision to endorse Habbo to Runescape trades, you might as well set up a forum for Habbo to RWT's because you're at the same risk of trading between games with no security.

In fact, you'd be a fool to even think it's fine to do it. It's noticeable that this thread is no longer a feedback thread, but merely a game of who's right & who's wrong. It's despicable! Wiizzz brought up a valid point & only members of Management are the ones who are against the idea of protecting users from the insecurities of trading between games. Just remember when somebody gets scammed on a Habbo to Runescape trade which was conducted on HabboxForum, you could've protected them however you blatently ignored users concerns for the sake of saving face.

[Catzsy]

I'm just putting my opinions out here, and something that I know a few people will be thinking now but Habbo to Runescape trades have always been frowned upon. At one point I swear people were being banned for it, but they have always been frowned upon by everyone. I've played Runescape a month, and Habbo for almost 6 years and I know that. I don't see how Habbox can even go onto almost defend their decision to endorse Habbo to Runescape trades, you might as well set up a forum for Habbo to RWT's because you're at the same risk of trading between games with no security.

In fact, you'd be a fool to even think it's fine to do it. It's noticeable that this thread is no longer a feedback thread, but merely a game of who's right & who's wrong. It's despicable! Wiizzz brought up a valid point & only members of Management are the ones who are against the idea of protecting users from the insecurities of trading between games. Just remember when somebody gets scammed on a Habbo to Runescape trade which was conducted on HabboxForum, you could've protected them however you blatently ignored users concerns for the sake of saving face.

I think you will find that Management have said they will consider all of Wiizz's points now that the rule has been brought to their attention. Also there have always been 'disclaimers' on Habbox Forum in every section that has trading saying that it is their responsibility such as this one:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=628432
Before that there was one along the same lines posted by --Mad-- so members are well aware of the risk they take. Also during the time of --Mad-- and perhaps later it was not considered important that we bother about Runescape Rules and T&Cs or even Crack codes & serial keys on software etc and other links that were considered by the members to be 'illegal'. It was this management team who tightened up all these rules so I am not sure what you are talking about. Nobody has ignored user concerns as all points are being considered. As for what is 'right or wrong' this has to be established to enable the management to come to a balanced decision.

[Pyroka]

I think you will find that Management have said they will consider all of Wiizz's points now that the rule has been brought to their attention. Also there have always been 'disclaimers' on Habbox Forum in every section that has trading saying that it is their responsibility such as this one:
http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=628432
Before that there was one along the same lines posted by --Mad-- so members are well aware of the risk they take. Nobody has ignored user concerns as all points are being considered. As for what is 'right or wrong' this has to be established to enable the management to come to a balanced decision.

When it comes to Habbox, I find the words "we'll consider" another way of saying we'll chat about it but honestly we know best. I think that shows in this thread actually, that though they say they'll consider it their standpoint is truly set and they aren't representing the users interests but only their own. I still stand by my opinion that HabboxForum should outlaw the practice of trading Habbo for Runescape items, & that simply by not doing so will only land them in the ****. Habbo is for Habbo items, Runescape is for Runescape items. That's that for me, and I'd be lying if I cared for otherwise.

[Hecktix]

1) Redtiz does deal with Habbo Fansites sometimes, but is not the only one that frequently visits our forums. We get several, and when they don't like something they email management about it and it has always been promptly dealt with, I assume this was no different.

Just to clarify, Redtiz no longer deals with fansites in regards to how they are run etc - her role is purely to do with the Moderation & Safety of Habbo players since the merge - this is somethig Redtiz has clarified with us and the most she has to do with fansites is that she is interested in communicating safety tips/advice to the Habbo Community - and an off topic note, I am unbelievably grateful that she chooses to use Habbox to do this.

In regards to the issue I believe runescape rules need revising to highlight further that Habbox has no responsibility over Habbo-Runescape trades however unless Jin notifies us otherwise it's not something that will be changed.

Habbo are definitely aware of this practice occurring and I am under the impression Runescape probably are too - it's worth noting that such practices are always going to occur and I believe both companies are aware of this, however if I was the person in charge of regulating such things for these companies I would draw a blind eye to such things happening on a long-standing, trusted, public forum rather than in complete privacy - trading Habbo for Runescape and likewise via HabboxForum is probably one of the safest ways of it being done so with it being absolutely inevitable that such practices will occur, I do not believe turning a blind eye would be such a bad idea - in Jagex's eyes we are a site trusted and monitored by Sulake - tell me, would you rather your users risked themselves privately or somewhere like HabboxForum, afterall risk is why a lot of these rules are in place, I know there are aspects of other things too however as I've said, it's going to happen anyway I'd rather pose a safe atmosphere for it to happen. Runescape have told us in the past what they really don't want us to do and we've complied - if they want us to stop this, we'll do it however with Jagex's rules pointing out that it is strictly against the rules, I think our users need to be reminded of this.