The Queen & Visiting Ireland

[Eoin247]

It's been rather different to that, comparisons made between Queen Elizabeth II and terrorist groups whilst at the same time both of you showed a reluctance to label the IRA as they are, terrorists.

Firstly you're using stuff i didn't say against me. What kind of game are you playing here? I never made that comparison.

For the part in bold. I'm very glad you said that because you proved to me that you are not reading me and richies posts properly. It's fairly ironic actualy because me and Richie have EACH labeled them terrorists far more times than you have.

Up to this post of yours you have labeled the IRA terrorists twice, whilst me and Richie have done it at least 8 times! Don't believe me? here are some quotes...

richie
Firstly, I'd like to make clear, yes the IRA are classed as a terrorist group, which is true.
have some hate against them (If they weren't "terrorists").
Just as things start to die down, the IRA have stopped terrorist attacks
the IRA out to be the only ones disturbing peace, "the terrorists".
I believe in there political views, yes. Not their terrorist attacks.

Eoin247

There is a difference between supporting a terrorist organisation and giving reasons why there are people in Ireland that dislike the British.
Back then the IRA wasn't a terrorist organisation.
Give some evidence that i have directly defended the terrorist IRA.

Instead of just glancing at our posts and calling us IRA sympathisers, maybe read our posts properly. In fact going by your reasoning i have every right to call you an IRA sympathiser since "you showed a reluctance to label the IRA as they are, terrorists." by not calling them terrorists frequently enough.

If you believe in a United Ireland why don't you just come out and say it? you've said you didn't, yet now you are still harping on about a 'split country' - there is no split. There is a split island yes, just as Indonesia and Papua New Guniea share the same islands but are different countries, the same applies to mainland Europe/Africa/South America/North American and so forth.
The people of Ulster are British and do not belong or wish to be a part of the neighbouring country, Ireland.

Again not reading my post properly and missing out on my point. People were saying "if you don't dislike the Germans because of the past then why do the IRA dislike the English?", theres no separate country that used to be part of England now owned by Germany. I'm pointing out why it's a different situation. STOP twisting my words.

In fact i'll give you an example. You know what the main reason is a lot of spaniards dislike the British? It's because of Gibraltar. It's such a tiny tiny piece of land, yet there is a lot of sensitivity amongst the Spanish about it. Trust me i know, i have a lot of family in Spain. I'm pointing out to the people who don't seem to know the difference between situations, that when there are remnants it is a lot harder to just bury things than when there are no remnants.

By the fact that the British army fought against guerilla squads as opposed to an army. I don't believe anyone here has ever or would ever say that the British army has got everything wrong and as I stated earlier, isolated incidents have occured (such as the Dyer incident in the British Raj) which were terrible and can only be described as massacres.
So why do you and Richie feel the need to constantly pretend that this is what we are saying, when we are clearly not. What many object to is the slaughtering of innocents by a terrorist group known as the IRA for a cause which does not have majority support in Ulster.

Oh the irony. I'm clearly not supporting the IRA, as i proved above. So why do you " feel the need to constantly pretend that this is what we are saying, when we are clearly not."

Yes you did, you still seem to hold the idea in your head (despite denying you want a United Ireland) that the island is somehow divided and that the people living in the north are colonialists. Where is the line drawn Eoin? as I said earlier, you can apply it to the Viking settlements across Europe, the Spanish and Portugese settlement of South America or the Ottoman advancement and destruction of the Byzantine Empire which saw Islam sweep where the Roman Empire had once stood.
Are the people of North America, South America and Turkey all colonialists? we all if you go back far enough.

I didn't and to prove it i'll quote what i said:

Again with the last point, comparing things that aren't comparable. Am i speaking Swedish? Is there another country on this island called southern norseland?

The vikings, normans etc eventually integrated into our society and in the end had no links to their countries of origins. That's not what happened with regards to this.

I'm not justifying any wrongs, infact i've pointed more out with the incident of Dyer in the Raj for example - what you make of the colonisation of South America, North America, Ireland and so forth is another topic. The issue is, it happened. Those people are gone and their ancestors, whom were born there, now live there - it is their home.
Richie did, and i'm replying to you both. But on the case of British rule over Ireland, in a way we had no choice - we were ourselves a small second rate nation at the time and Ireland, being a largely backward isle (more so backward than England compared to other European powers) was a very attractive landing post for French or Spanish troops against protestant England (often taking part in campaigns against England and later Great Britain).
In the end, Ireland didn't like England and showed it and the same the other way around - as a result the more advanced and stronger of the two won the day and claimed the spoils of war, as with any war in history.

That's not what i was talking about when i said justifying wrongs. By comparing other peoples and countries that were wiped out/oppressed how you were attempting to justify wrongs with wrongs.

If Richie said it then please don't use it in reply to my posts. If i used opinions/statements that other British people on the forums have said against you then i could easily label you a large variety of things. With the original invasion though, that isn't what i was talking about. But with regards to that, the main reason people wanted the English out was due to how they were treated. If you had Irish people treated the same as English people were back then, then i would probably be British myself today and wouldn't be having this debate with you.

You sympathise with them by attacking anyone who rightly attacks the IRA by attacking the British army, of which nobody here has said is as white as a bedsheet. Now as for the ill feelings, you brought it upon yourselves (see response above) but being the weaker of the two nations working with strong continental powers, you rightly lost against England on many occassions

The only reason i even mentioned the British army is due to what you originally suggested in the first post i replied to of yours. Secondly i keep telling you that any ill feelings are due to recent history and current situations. Also see above for another reason.

Should the bulk of Netherlands, Sweden and Norway be evacuated then? should where modern Turkey is, be returned to the Greeks/Italians as the Ottoman Empire crushed the Byzantine Empire? no, its a ridiculous argument and doesn't withstand a moments rational thought.
Now as for reminding people of the past, and so what? nobody alive in Ireland can recall a sovereign Irish state that emcompassed the entire island of Ireland because it hasn't existed for hundreds of years. And even if this were the case, which it is not, why should the wishes of the people in Ulster be ignored just so you can have a United Ireland, a reality you have haven't had for hundreds of years anyway?
Should the wishes of the British people be ignored so that all Viking lands can be reunited with Scandanavia? no.

I touched on this above i think, but i'll say it again. The situations are obviously not the same. I'll give the example of the vikings. Over time they integrated into the societies, you don't know who amongst you is decended from vikings? There aren't any connections to scandinavia now. You are all just English. That hasn't happened in this case though.
You must remember that for a lot of people it isn't just that reason from history. You know yourself what the cause of the troubles in Northern Ireland was.

So why are you arguing that the British army is whiter than white when nobody has said its not? again, because you are determined to defend the IRA whilst Richie can't resist placing them in his signature and I recall (and he can correct me if i'm wrong) him posting a pro-IRA video not that long ago sometime last year.

Well the first part about the army can be answered with what i said earlier.

The second point is really beggining to annoy me. If you continue to use what Richie says against me then i'm going to take a leaf out of your book and use what some other Englishman on the forum says, against you. Considering i'll have a lot more choice it's probably not in your best interest

Another note on this also, you are both disorting this - the comparison was made between Queen Elizabeth II/HM armed forces and the IRA which was then quickly disproven and rightly shot down by many posters on this forum, you then came and brought in the likes of the UVF as the IRA rightly came under attack in the fact that the IRA are terrorists, Queen Elizabeth II and the British armed forces are not.

Nobody was for a moment defending the likes of the UVF or saying that the British army has been whiter than white.

What the hell are you on about? Not one person quoted me apart from you. So there goes that argument about everybody shouting down what i'm saying. In case you didn't realise me and Richie are not the same person. Being from the same country doesn't make us one person so don't reply to me in that way. If you wish to continue this way though i'll gladly us this thinking myself against you from now on.

You are the one distorting this. Even though i've constantly proven (especially earlier in this post) that i don't support the IRA, you constantly say i do. Do you think so little of your argument that you feel the need to label me a terrorist and try to get people to disregard what i say in that way? You have said it in nearly every point you've made.

[AgnesIO]

Richie, are you saying if my great grand dad happened to be a murderer, my granddad, dad, me and future generations should therefore be hated?

[Red]

Firstly you're using stuff i didn't say against me. What kind of game are you playing here? I never made that comparison.

You never but Richie did.

the queen of England is somewhat a terrorist

You might label them a terrorist but when you are saying you agree with their political views and then condone their actions, then you are going to come up against accusations of being an IRA sympathiser.

[Technologic]

im just gonna go ahead and say the british army stopped all the crap in the 90s, its the IRA that continued on but hey, defend them all you like, not like anybody's gonna think you're a nut

[Eoin247]

You never but Richie did.


You might label them a terrorist but when you are saying you agree with their political views and then condone their actions, then you are going to come up against accusations of being an IRA sympathiser.

im just gonna go ahead and say the british army stopped all the crap in the 90s, its the IRA that continued on but hey, defend them all you like, not like anybody's gonna think you're a nut

If either of you are talking to me, then actualy read my post on this page.

Now kirst i'm going to go and defend Richie here. He never said he condones their actions. On his opening post he said:

I do agree with their views but not their violence

Just because Richie agrees with their views it doesn't mean he condones their actions.

[Red]

Didn't out right say it but when you go and posts things like claiming their attacks are provoked or that its ok for them to kill because they have a grudge against their victims then I beg to differ.

[Eoin247]

Didn't out right say it but when you go and posts things like claiming their attacks are provoked or that its ok for them to kill because they have a grudge against their victims then I beg to differ.

Please point out where i said anything even remotely close to this.

[AgnesIO]

By all means Richie, assassinate the Queen, do us all a favour.

What a bizarre comment

[alexxxxx]

I haven't read much of this thread, but I honestly don't understand why there is so much hatred for this. It's disgusting. Sure the British Army have made mistakes - it doesn't mean that bombing Manchester or London is any act of self-defense or that it can be excused. And calling the Queen a terrorist, give me a break.

[Niall!]

Nothing will happen, stop worrying about it.