wow are you serious

[The Don]

In which case you would be breaking this rule too?



His post was not relevant to the topic of the thread, and thus neither was yours?

I guess thats why that particular rule is worded like that.

Letting members know why they have been in breach of a rule is a moderators job, and anyone else doing it could cause disruption within a thread, and drags away from the main thread topic even more. There are different ways of letting someone know they have broken a rule, and you have basically clarified it for him where it is not really your place to do so.

I think this is going round in circles and we're not really going to get anywhere fast, so I'm sure it will be resolved by Matt/Forum Management soon when a final decision is made.

Matt has just established I didn't break the rule.

Yes, my post would be off topic, I've previously explained that I posted a constructive post, then noticed his post so I responded to it thinking my posts would merge but someone posted in between thus creating a separate, off topic post. But that's irrelevant, you didn't edit me for that, I wouldn't have an issue with that, because as we've established, it was off topic. Instead however, you edit me for impersonating a moderator which is untrue. Apology?

[xxMATTGxx]

Using that logic would you say those who say 'the thread is already here' or 'this thread is in the wrong forum' is also some form of moderating? As I fail to see how they aren't good examples of members moderating if this case is (a form).

I don't really want members going round just posting that in threads and then not adding anything to the actual discussion in the first place. Just replying to a thread telling them it's in the wrong section would just be for the sake of getting post count and would also be pointless in a way as they aren't contributing.

I also wouldn't put the blame to the moderators on editing the post for that rule, it's the rule that can be confusing at times. As there isn't really a line of what is them acting as a moderator or not - Probably something to clarify with them all.

[buttons]

i agree it's definitely the weakest team of mods i've seen ever, they follow the rules to a t without actually using their common sense. the rules need to be relaxed, using them as a guide instead of absolutely essential. it's like the pointless posting rule, i don't see how it disrupts the thread unless there is a completely off topic conversation going on in the thread.

If you have a problem with moderation that has been made by an individual and not the whole department then it should really be all dealt with via PM or in the Support Forums. There is no need for feedback thread after feedback thread when most of the time it's down to a member of the department doing something wrong than the whole department. Any threads from now on that is aimed at one individual will be moved into the Support Forums, this isn't a new rule - It's a rule that just hasn't been forced recently.

what why because it'll make your staff look bad? the problem isn't really the moderators, it's the way they deal with the rules. like i said, they edit pretty much anything that breaks the rules even if it isn't doing any harm..

In terms of your actual post, yes it is telling them they are breaking the rules and the rule is there to stop people from saying it to every rule break there is on the forum.

or maybe your staff such as the guy in question could actually read the rules then maybe they wouldn't have had to have it pointed out to them?

Now it is an odd rule as well and sometimes moderators do give out harsh warnings towards such posts. But you could of just reported the post like anyone else would of - Was there a need to reply?

i reported the post as i had nothing else to contribute by quoting him but i'm pretty sure i saw the don keep on topic to the thread AND quote the guy who obviously doesn't understand the rules. no harm done there, is there? he helped him out but of course, the don sticking to the rules is obviously much more important even though he didn't exactly do anything offensive..

Whilst I don't know the context and therefore don't have an opinion on this case specifically, I have always thought the "leave moderation to the mods" rule is rather odd. Surely we should encourage users to flag up any rule breaks so others can learn from the mistake; I see no reason why it should be hidden if someone is simply performing a good-will gesture. I don't think I've ever seen a user trying to act as a moderator, they're just trying to help. It's a subjective rule that is largely ignored, and for good reason too.

i agree completely.

Just because your post didn't say it formally "Edited by The Don (Forum Member) - Do not post off topic" doesn't mean you weren't in violation of the leave moderating to the moderators rule. It's a fairly straight-forward rule that is there to stop threads from just becoming a place of 'you broke x, you broke y' - similar to a rule on the DigitalSpy forums where it's not allowed to point out grammar mistakes. It keeps the thread on track and while threads should be able to naturally progress onto other topics, I personally wouldn't want a forum where threads are filled with 'you broke the rules.'

If you are going to leave a forum based on a warning by a moderator, I think it says more about you than this forum, to put it bluntly.

both rules are completely ridiculous. people should have free will to correct grammar or anything else they want to. in spam people are frequently corrected by their spelling and grammar and honestly that helped me quite a lot before.
and disagreed with the last sentence, whether it's a forum or not i don't think there is anything wrong with challenging authority over something which you suspect to be a negative or to leave something you feel is corrupt. he is flagging up an issue. other people are giving their opinions.

I don't see the point in telling members they have broken a rule and why etc, that makes you sound more superior than them

LOL WOW??? isn't that a moderators sole job, to tell off a member for breaking rules?! that actually makes the MODERATORS sound as though they're more superior than the rest. you're allowed to tell us off because you're a moderator but we're not because we aren't? i would say that's segregating and making us seem as though we're under your control lmao. this rule is actually pathetic in my opinion, it doesn't do any harm at all

but in the past it has been known for members to get the rules wrong and thus confuse newer members, which is why its generally best left to the moderators.

great logic, not. or maybe its best that its left to people who've actually been here longer and know the rules? i think its best for any person there at the time to do so. imagine someone posted porn and there was no mods online. are we just supposed to be like "carry on" or do we tell them that its actually against the rules? and maybe members should be required to read the rules before they actually become staff too? :S

Reporting a post takes seconds and solves the issue much better.

no it doesn't as you can tell them and they can edit their post and wallah, issue solved and less time for the mods to work :rolleyes:

Telling people publically in a thread could a) encourage further pointless posting with them answering back/questioning you, b) causing arguments between members which we have also seen before.

or telling someone you're not allowed to pointless post can stop them from doing it in the future (maybe not in THAT thread but afterwards) and how about waiting until it actually causes an argument before you do anything?? "posting to cause arguments" is another stupid rule. many things that are posted can be seen as offensive to someone but it doesn't always result in an argument.

In this case I actually got a couple of opinions from other people who are clued up on the rules and they also agreed that the post was breaking a rule.

many of us are clued up on your so called rules but we're not allowed to tell someone off for it? plus, rules are changeable and apparently, as i've seen, one rule isn't the same for everyone.

I personally think that if you have a problem with the way a moderator has done something then you should be able to contact forum management and get the issue resolved that way, I don't think creating threads like this really solves your issue,

it can help get everyone elses views on the matter so you can see where the rules/department as a whole is going wrong. or maybe not as our views apparently don't count.
everyone in the mod department is so scared of criticism jeez.

In regards to being 'power hungry', I really don't like that term and I do this job because I enjoy doing so and helping enforce the rules. I am not doing it to score points or gain logs.

but all u do as a mod is tell people off. its not reinforcing rules or rewarding anyone. its just getting logs and telling people off.... :S

we do it based on the rules.

thats your problem. use common sense instead.

There's no need to exaggerate. I agree with Martin, and the rule itself because I know that if people start going round telling others they have broken the rules (which you did do - you've admitted it) then it can lead to arguments between the two members.

can lead doesn't mean will lead and shouldn't be dealt with until there is an argument... |-)

[Grig]

You know what's interesting to me, that threads like this concerning a rule break of a specific member. In the past threads like these would be instantly closed and you'd have to appeal.

The conversation here can only be fair if all members saying such things get edited. Obviously, I agree if you point it out to the person but add something else that actually re-directs the post back to topic. But by simply pointing out a rule break, does not re-direct the said thread to topic, nor is it constructive in any way apart from maybe making it go more off topic and even starting an argument in some cases. That's probably why some other members never got edited for pointing stuff like that out. Although the "leave the moderating to the moderators" rule could easily have them edited as well.

Although I got frustrated at that initial post too, the overall decision was correct for both members.

[xxMATTGxx]

I will only quote this part because I'm pretty sure my other posts in this thread show my view on the punishment The Don received. (Which you didn't quote)

what why because it'll make your staff look bad? the problem isn't really the moderators, it's the way they deal with the rules. like i said, they edit pretty much anything that breaks the rules even if it isn't doing any harm..

It has always been a policy since the days of nvrspk4 that if a thread is more of a complaint because it is aimed at one person such as Martin then it would be removed and placed in the complaints/support forums as that is the correct place to deal with it. If the thread is a general feedback thread and is actually suggesting to a change of way things should be done - Forum Rules or the whole moderation department then it is fine to be in feedback.

or maybe your staff such as the guy in question could actually read the rules then maybe they wouldn't have had to have it pointed out to them?

It's not about him reading the rule, it's about how the rule should be enforced.

[Chippiewill]

I have reason to believe, including word from a staff member, that this was picked upon and used because certain staff members dislike me, which is fine, not everybody can be friends, but if you want to pick up on this rule so heavily, would you say this post @Chippiewill; is breaking this rule?

That thread was not technically breaking any rules, you have a right to complain about stuff in feedback if you want, I guess, however I felt that you were trying to turn an issue with a single decision into an issue about the system, a system you weren't even using for that matter, when a thread in support would have sufficed for the issue that you personally had. Naturally everyone decided to pile on about how moderators are terrible despite the fact they are better than they used to be because all you have to compare them with is your life experiences. Naturally as you get older you get more freedoms and since you'd compare Habbox moderation against like you'd see habbox becoming stricter.

You know what's interesting to me, that threads like this concerning a rule break of a specific member. In the past threads like these would be instantly closed and you'd have to appeal.

We don't have temperamental AGMs anymore..

[Grig]

We don't have temperamental AGMs anymore..

and that's your answer to why people like buttons may think "worst group of moderators ever", because the public can now speak out and discuss their woes, unlike before. So every single issue, gets put into discussion and a 10 page thread results out of it.

People weren't always 100% pleased with moderation in the past, but it never became a huge issue or slagging off fest either.

[Chippiewill]

and that's your answer to why people like buttons may think "worst group of moderators ever", because the public can now speak out and discuss their woes, unlike before. So every single issue, gets put into discussion and a 10 page thread results out of it.

People weren't always 100% pleased with moderation in the past, but it never became a huge issue or slagging off fest either.

I certainly disagree with the staff slagging off and if it continues then I will be very disappointed with Matt since no one wants to work in a hostile environment, however so long as people can keep their complaints OBJECTIVE and about the procedure - not the staff - then I'm fine with the thread.

The AGM never actually moved a thread to complaints because it involved staff being slagged off, I think he was more bored/frustrated with arguing with people.

[jasey]

agree with everything jen says. i do think this is a pretty weak group of moderators.

[Mathew]

Complaining that they're a weak group of moderators in every post doesn't do anyone any favours; it just weakens your argument. Perhaps giving them some support once in a while could encourage them to take an alternative stance. There seems to be a slight lack of respect for people who put time into the site and receive no reinforcement other than negative feedback threads.