Unelected Jean-Claude Juncker nominated as next head of EU Commission

[-:Undertaker:-]

So under that logic the scots should be allowed to vote in the general election since most of them don't identify as british.

Britain is certainly breaking down thanks to devolution, but whether the Scots still consider themselves as a part of the same people we in England, Wales and Northern Ireland will be decided in the referendum this September: a referendum they've every right to.

I added a part on my post above about Scotland and the Acts of Union comparing with Russia/USSR before you posted if you're interested.

[FlyingJesus]

He can't even block the appointment of the head of the European Commission

Oh my, it's almost as though more than 1 person has a say in these things. You appear to be arguing against democracy here.

By that logic the Chinese President is also 'elected' by the politburo.

No because the politburo isn't elected by the people. You seem to be very good at ignoring the fact that we do elect our representatives, whose job it is to then try to represent us however bad they appear to be at it

The European parliament on the other hand isn't a democracy for the reason that although the parliament is elected by public, the European Commission is simply appointed by the parliament/heads of state

The same heads of state that we elect democratically to lead us? Whoops.

Because the people there never felt or saw themselves as Soviet people

[citation needed]

[-:Undertaker:-]

Oh my, it's almost as though more than 1 person has a say in these things. You appear to be arguing against democracy here.

Well no, because if you'd read what I said about a democracy needing a demos then you'd understand my point that even if Juncker and his Commission were elected from the floor of the parliament (which they are not, so he's not elected in the simple 1man=1vote generalisation) it still wouldn't be able to function as a democracy.

No because the politburo isn't elected by the people. You seem to be very good at ignoring the fact that we do elect our representatives, whose job it is to then try to represent us however bad they appear to be at it

That is true, however, there are certain positons which wield such influence over legislation that they should be elected or directly elected (if they are to even exist in the first place). The same example is always put to me on these forums concerns the House of Lords or the Queen, to which my reply is that the Queen and the House of Lords don't create legislation like the House of Commons does. It's very much the same with the European 'Parliament' - it is the European Commission which creates the legislation, therefore the European Commission (should it even exist) should be elected.

The same heads of state that we elect democratically to lead us? Whoops.

So the British people elected Angela Merkel? Fracois Hollande? No.

One person we did elect was David Cameron, and he's just been overruled.

[citation needed]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolu...e_Soviet_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1989

[Chippiewill]

So the British people elected Angela Merkel? Fracois Hollande? No.

One person we did elect was David Cameron, and he's just been overruled.

We don't vote for all MPs, just our own.

[-:Undertaker:-]

We don't vote for all MPs, just our own.

Yes, but they make up a government which is legit as it is made from a single people.

I go back to the political union idea between Britaina and Saudi Arabia, would a democratic vote in such a state be workable? Would it take place along ideological lines, or would it take place along national/ethnic or tribal divisions? The second of course, and that is why it wouldn't work.

[Chippiewill]

Yes, but they make up a government which is legit as it is made from a single people.

single people is so vague as to mean whatever the **** you want it to.

[FlyingJesus]

Well no, because if you'd read what I said about a democracy needing a demos then you'd understand my point that even if Juncker and his Commission were elected from the floor of the parliament (which they are not, so he's not elected in the simple 1man=1vote generalisation) it still wouldn't be able to function as a democracy.

Are we not people any more

That is true, however, there are certain positons which wield such influence over legislation that they should be elected or directly elected (if they are to even exist in the first place). The same example is always put to me on these forums concerns the House of Lords or the Queen, to which my reply is that the Queen and the House of Lords don't create legislation like the House of Commons does. It's very much the same with the European 'Parliament' - it is the European Commission which creates the legislation, therefore the European Commission (should it even exist) should be elected.

It is, that's the point

So the British people elected Angela Merkel? Fracois Hollande? No.

One person we did elect was David Cameron, and he's just been overruled.

No-one outside of Witney elected David Cameron as an MP, but that isn't grounds to claim that he's unelected. As for being overruled, welcome to democratic politics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dissolu...e_Soviet_Union
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Revolutions_of_1989

Both of those pages show that people wanted democracy and an end to a one-party system rather than being upset about what their passports say on them

[Sian]

it's all just ludacris, do our elected MEPs not get to have a say in this then?

Fair if we cant vote, but the MEPs should.

[FlyingJesus]

No our elected head of state does

[Chippiewill]

I believe the current system (Which Cameron is against) is that the vote MEPS to confirm the candidate.