Sinterklaas And Zwarte Piet - Racism?

[The Don]

Of course he doesn't understand what racism is, hence why he throws it around like confetti whenever he can. He's just another self-hating soppy westerner who is terrified of causing offence. Ironically, the complaints of offence caused by in large usually come from the likes of The Don and white liberal politicians rather than the supposed discriminated against groups anyway.

The truth is that these are crude costumes (not professional) and they seek to replicate common body features of black people: that they have larger lips than whites do. Just as if you wanted to dress up as a Han Chinaman you'd seek to have your eyes made smaller, or as a Red Indian your skin coloured in a reddish tint. That's not discrimination or offence, that's just a ******* costume lmao. The quote in my signature is very apt if you ask me.

Yes because i'm totally white. You're a moron Dan and the only person who trods along this forum sprouting the race card all the time is you when you say 'waycist' in your snide little comments to downplay whatever xenophobic **** you're talking about on that particular day.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes because i'm totally white. You're a moron Dan and the only person who trods along this forum sprouting the race card all the time is you when you say 'waycist' in your snide little comments to downplay whatever xenophobic **** you're talking about on that particular day.

Yeah yeah sure I do.

Debate about immigration, who makes it about race? You do.
An innocent Dutch tradition, who pulls out the race card? You do.

You've even managed to pull out the xenophobia card now lmao. Well done.

[The Don]

Yeah yeah sure I do.

Debate about immigration, who makes it about race? You do.
An innocent Dutch tradition, who pulls out the race card? You do.

You've even managed to pull out the xenophobia card now lmao. Well done.

IN A DEBATE ABOUT RACISM MADE BY ANOTHER USER. Are you for real? get a grip

[The Don]

[benzoberzerk]

The word racism sure gets thrown around a lot. Is this custom intended to be racist? I don't think so. Is the average dutch citizen who celebrates it a racist? I don't think so either. That, however, doesn't mean people can't be offended by and subjected to discrimination because of it. The real question is whether the problem should be dealt with on every instance that this might occur (which is impossible) or on a more basic level, in this case by changing the tradition.

In Sweden we have a traditional Christmas song about a "gingerbread man from the gingerbread land". One year there was an incident in a school in which an immigrant kid was bullied and the bullies used terms such as "gingerbread man" to emphasize that he was foreign. The school responded by banning the song from being sung at the last day of term. This naturally created a public outrage and a debate regarding whether the song is racist or not, which it clearly isn't. Does that mean it was wrong to ban it? No.

SO, just because something isn't racist in itself doesn't mean it can't be used as such. In the case of Zwarte Piet, which undoubtedly has upset a lot of people belonging to a group that is already underprivileged by being a minority, i personally can't see how keeping such a tradition is defendable. This, however, is of course very subjective. How much is the integrity and dignity of a few people worth compared to a custom that's become completely integrated in the dutch culture?