Netherlands overturns draconian smoking ban

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes because there is only one pub near me within about....10 miles? I don't particularly want to drive over to the other side of town just for a drink thanks.

And I don't see why i should have to drive 10 miles, waste petrol & my money, just for drink, when selfish smokers can just walk outside the door to feed their disgusting habit. Which is better for everyone? Yes - smokers going outside.

I'd look at it as a punishment for getting addicted - they have to freeze to feed their obsession, sounds fair enuf to me.

Then that is the problem of the landlord, you don't own the pub - therefore you have no say in how it is run.

You don't have to drive 10 miles, you could always sit in and have a drink - you go to a pub expecting there to be smoke, just as you go into the local ASDA expecting there to be food. Regarding the phrase 'disgusting habit' - what about drinking? the beverage which causes far more problems than smoking does with our town centres covered in sick, anti-social behaviour taking place and the occasional fight? maybe drinking is a habit which leads to disgusting outcomes but you don't hear me proposing to ban it.

How would you feel about this proposal - banning drinking in public places. You'd quite rightly call whoever suggested it a control freak, and that people should be able to make their own decisions - so why is it any different. I have no idea who has implanted this daft vendetta against smoking in you, but you'd be far better worrying about your intake of salts, fats, GM foods and chemicals than passive smoking and its overexaggerated effects.

As for addiction, people are addicted to alcohol - smoking is the same, not everybody is addicted to smoking.

This is pointless, -:Undertaker:- isn't open to other people's opinions. Whatever we say doesn't seem to get through. Seems like they are trolling tbh.

I just cant understand why you have such a problem with making decisions for yourself as opposed to the government making them for you, and i'm yet to hear a real reply to that point rather than the hypocritical nonsense i've heard regarding cancer, health and the usual 'WELL WHY CANT SMOKERS..'

[Nemo]

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I just cant understand why you have such a problem with making decisions for yourself as opposed to the government making them for you, and i'm yet to hear a real reply to that point rather than the hypocritical nonsense i've heard regarding cancer, health and the usual 'WELL WHY CANT SMOKERS..'

People can make decisions for themselves, it was the fact that some selfish people will make the decision to be, selfish. If the government have to step in and force people to think about others (for example they do this with people playing music loudly on the bus, should be stopped and im pretty sure it isnt allowed but then that's hard to enforce). What's wrong with the health replies and "why cant smokers"? Ive explained again and again that its harming your health for..

NO BENEFIT

dont know how many times i have to say it for it to stick in your head. And smokers should have to make the sacrifice, after all they are the ones who don't need to smoke and just harm themselves and others. Selfishness is what it is.

I wonder when you'll get through what i just said or remain stubborn and be like "YEAH BUT NO BECAUSE YOU CANT SAY THAT"

[-:Undertaker:-]

People can make decisions for themselves, it was the fact that some selfish people will make the decision to be, selfish. If the government have to step in and force people to think about others (for example they do this with people playing music loudly on the bus, should be stopped and im pretty sure it isnt allowed but then that's hard to enforce). What's wrong with the health replies and "why cant smokers"? Ive explained again and again that its harming your health for..

NO BENEFIT

dont know how many times i have to say it for it to stick in your head. And smokers should have to make the sacrifice, after all they are the ones who don't need to smoke and just harm themselves and others. Selfishness is what it is.

I wonder when you'll get through what i just said or remain stubborn and be like "YEAH BUT NO BECAUSE YOU CANT SAY THAT"

No, end this health rubbish. I take it (because you haven't knocked me back on this one yet) that you drink, eat salty foods such as McDonalds, consume food dyes, eat GM foods, eat fatty foods and have a drink now and again.

Now again I will ask, you say there is no benefit to smoking - the same applies to alcohol. So why not ban alcohol aswell which causes more problems than smoking does and ever will?

The fact is, that you are only using the health argument because you cant answer to my point about personal choice, so you bang on about health when you (I take it) consume all the things I listed about which makes you a hypocrite.

Don't pretend to be concerned about health when you are clearly not.

The benefit of smoking is enjoyment.
The benefit of drinking is enjoyment.
The benefit of eating fatty foods/salty foods is enjoyment.

All are harmful - don't demonise one but not the others just because you consume the others.

As usual it is 'do as I say but not as I do'.

[Nemo]

And notice that i said "for no benefit". Alcohol has the benefit of...fun. All those foods, are generally delicious and food dyes well they're in most things and not too bothered about them. Smoking however in the same room as a non smoker, just provides a nasty smell and cancer. cool.

No, end this health rubbish. I take it (because you haven't knocked me back on this one yet) that you drink, eat salty foods such as McDonalds, consume food dyes, eat GM foods, eat fatty foods and have a drink now and again.

Now again I will ask, you say there is no benefit to smoking - the same applies to alcohol. So why not ban alcohol aswell which causes more problems than smoking does and ever will?

The fact is, that you are only using the health argument because you cant answer to my point about personal choice, so you bang on about health when you (I take it) consume all the things I listed about which makes you a hypocrite.

Don't pretend to be concerned about health when you are clearly not.

The benefit of smoking is enjoyment.
The benefit of drinking is enjoyment.
The benefit of eating fatty foods/salty foods is enjoyment.

All are harmful - don't demonise one but not the others just because you consume the others.

As usual it is 'do as I say but not as I do'.

Do you just choose to not read what i write?
I do use those because they have benefits because i feel they outweight the risks.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Do you just choose to not read what i write?
I do use those because they have benefits because i feel they outweight the risks.

Smokers must feel the same way hence why they continue smoking.

You've just answered your own point about the benefits of smoking.

So the idea of 'no benefit' doesn't stand up, as usual its down to personal choice which is what i've been arguing for throughout this entire thread.

[Nemo]

Smokers must feel the same way hence why they continue smoking.

You've just answered your own point about the benefits of smoking.

So the idea of 'no benefit' doesn't stand up, as usual its down to personal choice which is what i've been arguing for throughout this entire thread.

Does me eating fatty foods harm anyones health? no. Does me drinking alcohol (lets not talk about side effects), harms anyones health? No.

What we're talking about is the selfishness of those who smoke, so yes, no benefit does. Because im pretty much being forced to inhale smoke that provides nothing whatsoever to me other than negative effects

[-:Undertaker:-]

Does me eating fatty foods harm anyones health? no. Does me drinking alcohol (lets not talk about side effects), harms anyones health? No.

What we're talking about is the selfishness of those who smoke, so yes, no benefit does. Because im pretty much being forced to inhale smoke that provides nothing whatsoever to me other than negative effects

But you are not being forced to inhale smoke, dont you understand that?

If it was down to the discretion of the landlord or landlady, nobody would be forced to do anything - smokers could go out for a smoke and a drink and non-smokers could go out for a drink = everybody happy, more pubs stay open and more revenue for both government and the booze industry.

You would not be forced to go anywhere, let alone a smoking pub.

[GommeInc]

you go to a pub expecting there to be smoke, just as you go into the local ASDA expecting there to be food.

I go expecting drink and/or food, not the smell of men and women endulging in a pointless addiction. Then sooner smoking is eradicated the better, there's no benefits :/

[-:Undertaker:-]

I go expecting drink and/or food, not the smell of men and women endulging in a pointless addiction. Then sooner smoking is eradicated the better, there's no benefits :/

Only within the past few years, you can still go for a drink and food - you simply would go to a non-smoking pub.

[Nemo]

But you are not being forced to inhale smoke, dont you understand that?

If it was down to the discretion of the landlord or landlady, nobody would be forced to do anything - smokers could go out for a smoke and a drink and non-smokers could go out for a drink = everybody happy, more pubs stay open and more revenue for both government and the booze industry.

You would not be forced to go anywhere, let alone a smoking pub.

My god, the fact that not everyone has a pub near them so they don't always get that choice.

I actually give up, continue to be stubborn