Is torture ever acceptable? [ENDS 27/02/2011]

[Eoin247]

As ive said you should only be able to torture people if you have 100% proof that they committed the crime.

Ok,you don't seem to have read my post properly. It is impossible to ever be sure that you are torturing the right person. You will never get 100% proof for a case, it has never happened in history that there's been 100% certainty. If you can tell me how you can be 100% sure, or even give an example in history when theres been 100% certainty, then go ahead and post it and i'll admit that you're right.

In fact most prisoners do re commit - http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...icle778681.ece

Well done on getting very vague statistics from 2002. I don't know if you've noticed, but we're in 2011 now?

Let me give you some real statistics that are a bit more recent. http://www.justice.gov.uk/compendium...d-analysis.pdf

Since i doubt you're going to bother to look through it, i'll give you some quick references to the statistics. Look at pages 2, 32-35, 37, 44, 45 (theres a lot more numbers after this if you still want further proof. And before you get excited at the raw reoffending rate on the earlier pages, stop and read it carefully.

How is death not the worst out there? Theres loads more things that is worse, you dont feel death, its instant in most cases.

You can stop crimes by putting them in prison for life? Death isnt the worst as ive stated above.

You would suffer more in prison for the rest of your life, death is instant and you wont feel no pain.

Ok, it's pointless arguing this point with you, as you evidently don't know the true value of life yet. As Jordy said, most people who are sentenced to death would much rather life in prison. There are countless stories of people who just to stay alive do extraordinary things. Such as cutting of their own limbs just to escape a sure death situation. Tell me why people would go through the torture of removing their own body parts, if death isn't the worst that can happen?

[-:Undertaker:-]

I do not think torture is acceptable as I do find it rather barbaric and doesn't serve our 'message' all that well. Torture in itself is often unreliable anyway, as of course if you torture somebody into giving an answer you want then you will get that answer if they break - whether or not it is the truthful answer. I would remind people of the Empire of Japan in the second world war, torture is foul.

I will also touch on the death penalty as it has been mentioned; the death penalty is civilised provided it is painless, and I would ask those warriors all against the death penalty to tell me why they do not support the death penalty as means of punishment after a fair and just trial, but are perfectly fine with aborting unborn, innocent babies. I am for abortion and the death penalty, but there is no logic what-so-ever in being against the death penalty but for abortion on moral grounds.

[Chippiewill]

Torture is horrendous and frequently results in false positives when used, when you are in extreme pain you'll do anything, say anything to stop it so if you don't actually know anything you'll just tell a lie to stop it.

It's also horrendous that the US pretended that water-boarding is just interrogation and not torture.

[Eoin247]

Torture in itself is often unreliable anyway, as of course if you torture somebody into giving an answer you want then you will get that answer if they break - whether or not it is the truthful answer.

Torture is horrendous and frequently results in false positives when used, when you are in extreme pain you'll do anything, say anything to stop it so if you don't actually know anything you'll just tell a lie to stop it.

Exactly the point i was trying to make earlier. Torture has been proven to not work, be inconsistent and unreliable. People will say anything you want just to get out of the pain, wheter what they say is the truth or not is just chance.

[Maatt.]

Yes.
If someone kills someone, they should be punished for it. They wouldn't like it if they were murderer. They should be punished. Prison isnt enough, its not luxury but its not bad. (My dad is a prison officer) Plus if there was torture involved, i think less people would harm others. If its only prison as a punishment, someone people aren't so scared of them so would carry on with what they were doing.

[Eoin247]

Yes.
If someone kills someone, they should be punished for it. They wouldn't like it if they were murderer. They should be punished. Prison isnt enough, its not luxury but its not bad. (My dad is a prison officer) Plus if there was torture involved, i think less people would harm others. If its only prison as a punishment, someone people aren't so scared of them so would carry on with what they were doing.

This really depends on who you are in prison though. A drug lord with lots of reputation and contacts may have it easy, yet a one time shooter who kills 12 people say in a shopping center might have no experience in the underworld and would have an extremely hard time.

[Banana Pancakes]

Ok,you don't seem to have read my post properly. It is impossible to ever be sure that you are torturing the right person. You will never get 100% proof for a case, it has never happened in history that there's been 100% certainty. If you can tell me how you can be 100% sure, or even give an example in history when theres been 100% certainty, then go ahead and post it and i'll admit that you're right.



Well done on getting very vague statistics from 2002. I don't know if you've noticed, but we're in 2011 now?

Let me give you some real statistics that are a bit more recent. http://www.justice.gov.uk/compendium...d-analysis.pdf

Since i doubt you're going to bother to look through it, i'll give you some quick references to the statistics. Look at pages 2, 32-35, 37, 44, 45 (theres a lot more numbers after this if you still want further proof. And before you get excited at the raw reoffending rate on the earlier pages, stop and read it carefully.






Ok, it's pointless arguing this point with you, as you evidently don't know the true value of life yet. As Jordy said, most people who are sentenced to death would much rather life in prison. There are countless stories of people who just to stay alive do extraordinary things. Such as cutting of their own limbs just to escape a sure death situation. Tell me why people would go through the torture of removing their own body parts, if death isn't the worst that can happen?

regarding the bit that no one is never 100% sure.
It's a 100% sure that Sadam Hussein committed his crimes and the same if Bin Laden is ever found.

[Prosperity]

The thing with torture though, is if you push somebody too far over the edge by means of torture then they could potentially admit to something that they didn't even do, just to stop being tortured. Let's face it, you wouldn't stop torturing somebody until you got the information you wanted.

[Eoin247]

regarding the bit that no one is never 100% sure.
It's a 100% sure that Sadam Hussein committed his crimes and the same if Bin Laden is ever found.

Actualy no it isn't. Tell me how exactly it is 100% sure with regards to Bin Laden? A lot of people would say that he claims to do things that others have done.

[Prosperity]

Actualy no it isn't. Tell me how exactly it is 100% sure with regards to Bin Laden? A lot of people would say that he claims to do things that others have done.

He's effectively the head of the worlds most powerful and wanted terror organization, how much more proof do you need?