What people are underpaid/overpaid?

[oli]

i don't know about the UK, but I've never heard of any classes in Ireland where every single person in a class gets the top grade. Maybe it's because we have more grade varieties? We have A1,A2,B1,B2,B3,C1,C2,C3 etc.

We have varieties like that below GCSE level, but how would you compare it to a student who is working @ 95% and they get to 100%, compared to a student who is working @ 30% and gets to 50%?

[Eoin247]

We have varieties like that below GCSE level, but how would you compare it to a student who is working @ 95% and they get to 100%, compared to a student who is working @ 30% and gets to 50%?

Some sort of variation of the log graph I mentioned. I'm no expert on the field but I imagine that a government can add a person who is an expert on this to their payroll and get a proper system devised.

[Kardan]

i don't know about the UK, but I've never heard of any classes in Ireland where every single person in a class gets the top grade. Maybe it's because we have more grade varieties? We have A1,A2,B1,B2,B3,C1,C2,C3 etc.

No, it would be very rare for usual public schools - but for private schools with small classes I'm sure it's been achieved many, many times.

Even at my school for Further Maths, there were 3 people in my class, myself included. We didn't all get top marks, but if we did, the situation would occur

The thing is, the whole system is flawed, if you got an expert on this subject to try and create a system, there wouldn't be a system that didn't have issues. It's better to leave teacher pay the way it is...

For example, trying to give doctors a pay bonus depending on how many patients live must suck if one person deals with broken arms, and the other deals with terminal cancer patients.

[Eoin247]

No, it would be very rare for usual public schools - but for private schools with small classes I'm sure it's been achieved many, many times.

Even at my school for Further Maths, there were 3 people in my class, myself included. We didn't all get top marks, but if we did, the situation would occur

The thing is, the whole system is flawed, if you got an expert on this subject to try and create a system, there wouldn't be a system that didn't have issues. It's better to leave teacher pay the way it is...

For example, trying to give doctors a pay bonus depending on how many patients live must suck if one person deals with broken arms, and the other deals with terminal cancer patients.

Obviously for small classes there would be exceptions and that's why it can't be a simple scale. Also for private schools that have small classes that wouldn't be fully funded by the government anyway. So it hardly matters.

A new system with a bit of thought put in is surely better than what there is currently. From experience and speaking to others, there are a lot of teachers around that are pretty bad/can't be bothered. There's no incentive for good work and bad teachers rarely get fired in the UK and Ireland.

Also that example that you gave wouldn't occur. Any expert on the matter would see that there are exceptions just as you and I can see. Mentally disabled kids obviously wouldn't be expected to perform as highly.

[Kardan]

Obviously for small classes there would be exceptions and that's why it can't be a simple scale. Also for private schools that have small classes that wouldn't be fully funded by the government anyway. So it hardly matters.

A new system with a bit of thought put in is surely better than what there is currently. From experience and speaking to others, there are a lot of teachers around that are pretty bad/can't be bothered. There's no incentive for good work and bad teachers rarely get fired in the UK and Ireland.

Also that example that you gave wouldn't occur. Any expert on the matter would see that there are exceptions just as you and I can see. Mentally disabled kids obviously wouldn't be expected to perform as highly.

So from your experience and speaking to others, how many teachers do you reckon are bad or can't be bothered? Because I highly doubt you could label many teachers as 'bad', I mean, between me and my friends we could probably come up with a list of 10-15 bad teachers we had over our whole education. If you can come up with a decent amount of bad teachers that accurately reflects the 438,000 teachers in England alone, be my guest

I honestly believe you wouldn't get an accurate enough system to give out fair pay bonuses in teaching.

[Eoin247]

So from your experience and speaking to others, how many teachers do you reckon are bad or can't be bothered? Because I highly doubt you could label many teachers as 'bad', I mean, between me and my friends we could probably come up with a list of 10-15 bad teachers we had over our whole education. If you can come up with a decent amount of bad teachers that accurately reflects the 438,000 teachers in England alone, be my guest

I honestly believe you wouldn't get an accurate enough system to give out fair pay bonuses in teaching.

Probably about 10-15 too. But that's too many. All it takes is one bad teacher when you're young.

Sure it won't be 100% fair, but nothing is in life. It would be a hell of a lot fairer than it currently is though.

Communist countries learnt the hard way that when you don't provide proper incentive people don't work as hard.

[Kardan]

Probably about 10-15 too. But that's too many. All it takes is one bad teacher when you're young.

Sure it won't be 100% fair, but nothing is in life. It would be a hell of a lot fairer than it currently is though.

Communist countries learnt the hard way that when you don't provide proper incentive people don't work as hard.

So 15 teachers is too many? I'm afraid you'll never get every single teacher in the UK up to the same standard, some will inevitably be better than others. Whilst I agree with you that one bad teacher can cause a lot of issues, offering performance related bonuses won't cure this.

And why is the current system not fair? And surely by your logic, every job should have performance related bonuses then?

[Eoin247]

So 15 teachers is too many? I'm afraid you'll never get every single teacher in the UK up to the same standard, some will inevitably be better than others. Whilst I agree with you that one bad teacher can cause a lot of issues, offering performance related bonuses won't cure this.

And why is the current system not fair? And surely by your logic, every job should have performance related bonuses then?

15 teachers for a group of friends is too many IMO.

Its not fair because bad teachers get the same pay as good teachers. All professions should have performance related bonuses. Most jobs you can get promoted for good work and get fired for not achieving good standards. As a teacher? You might become a principle but that is chosen on years worked rather than performance.

[Kardan]

15 teachers for a group of friends is too many IMO.

Its not fair because bad teachers get the same pay as good teachers. All professions should have performance related bonuses. Most jobs you can get promoted for good work and get fired for not achieving good standards. As a teacher? You might become a principle but that is chosen on years worked rather than performance.

I think you'll find they don't I would be highly surprised if you lined up a group of bad teachers and a group of good teachers and they all had the same salary

As a teacher there are options for promotion based on performance, and trust me, you definitely can get fired. I know at least 5 teachers that were fired.

As I stated before then, should a doctor that saves the lives of 100/100 people with broken arms be paid more than someone who saves 0/100 lives of people with terminal cancer, just because they performed better in their job role?

What about people in the army? The more people you kill, the more money you get? What about bus drivers? The more passengers, the more money? Same with pilots?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Sounds like a lot of government regulation and bureaucracy which would end up costing more than just raising state teacher's wages tbh lol

Devolve all pay matters to the schools themselves.