Vegans [sp?] - LOL

[Ezzie.]

I don't really care what anyone eats except myself, but hate how veganism is taken on like a religion that has to be preached. I don't see what's immoral about eating animal products other than how some industries choose to gain them. If a cow isn't milked it can become infected and a chicken laying an unfertilised egg is like a woman having her period. There is no cruelty in the basic concept. Eat what you like but don't try and justify it with skewed ideas.

Hmm yeah.. but it's the moral reasons behind it really- ie: for a cow to produce milk it needs to produce young or be producing young, nearly all of the calves birthed are then put into a tiny box so their flesh goes pale etc.
Also with chickens, they have to fertilise some of the eggs (not put into production of cause) to produce more hens- the males get killed as they're of no real use most of the time, then you can move onto battery hens =/

But meh.. I suppose when somebody sees such corruption and injustice in the world they want to do something about it but that's just my opinion on it.

Gomme, please.. original... material.. you've used that fat argument about 10 times already throughout a variety of threads everytime overlooking that i was basing my "fat" argument on the typical diet where they don't *obviously* cut the fat out, get it now?

Also, your signature makes me laugh. You can make peace at a buffet where meat is served the same with just vegetables and pasta. There can be peace and harmony wiuth animal slaughter "/

There can be peace with killing.. wha? Sorry you've lostme..

[velocity]

seriously, idc.

you only live once; its part of a healthy lifestyle and if you didnt kill them they'd overbreed and we'd be swamped with them. im sure they dont really care if their fellow cow gets killed and put on my plate. theyre not as superior as us, therefore they dont need the same rights as us, sure, they have some and theyre in a manageable environment.

so who really cares? stop spending your life looking after animals or w/e when your not actually going to get anything in return, if you dont like it then dont go about preaching about how we are in the wrong, because your annoying and make yourself look stupid. if you think so seriously about it you wouldnt just be sat here at a computer. get outside & do something about it..

[Ezzie.]

seriously, idc.

you only live once; its part of a healthy lifestyle and if you didnt kill them they'd overbreed and we'd be swamped with them. im sure they dont really care if their fellow cow gets killed and put on my plate. theyre not as superior as us, therefore they dont need the same rights as us, sure, they have some and theyre in a manageable environment.

so who really cares? stop spending your life looking after animals or w/e when your not actually going to get anything in return, if you dont like it then dont go about preaching about how we are in the wrong, because your annoying and make yourself look stupid. if you think so seriously about it you wouldnt just be sat here at a computer. get outside & do something about it..

Well considering we overbreed them to kill them then no they wouldn't overbreed they'd goto a normal population size over time but they've been selectively bread so they produce to much milk for their calves.

and the rest.. just lol... in an honest opinion if you want to eat meat eat it, sadly it's been too much indented into the status quo we can't do an incredble amount, and "preaching" is just stating facts and correcting people when they make out that vegans/vegetarians are a bunch of sickly people..

and i've been out all week. hence the long replies?
Maybe you should go out and relieve abit of anger..

[velocity]

yeah, give me a gun and a few vegetarians who think eating meat is so violent and i'll show them the true meaning.

[GommeInc]

Gomme, please.. original... material.. you've used that fat argument about 10 times already throughout a variety of threads everytime overlooking that i was basing my "fat" argument on the typical diet where they don't *obviously* cut the fat out, get it now?

I'm glad you've accepted your wrong, and there isn't alot of fat in meat even if you don't cut it out, unless you have a few ozs of the stuff drooping off it. It also seems to be the main argument you have with meat, suggesting it is incredibly unhealthy. It isn't, it is the opposite.

There can be peace with killing.. wha? Sorry you've lostme..

They're animals, they're food "/ You must be pretty simple minded to think killing an animal can disrupt harmony and peace.

It also isn't 'immoral' to kill an animal. We can eat them and it isn't wrong unless you relate yourself with the 'pain' it is going through, which is a sadist approach to it. Maybe all vegetarians and vegans that dislike animals being eaten are just sadists?

I still disagree. Science cant proove everything. How do you know the pain they feel isn't worse? As long as they have (damn forgot what its called. sensitive cells / nerons or whatever), they can feel pain.

The science behind it has given some idea as to what the animal goes through. Psycholigcally, it really doesn't have a clue, it hasn't got the awareness of it's surroundings and itself as much as a human or another type of animal which is self-aware (apes, dolphins, elephants etc). But then again science can be wrong, but it seems more probable that the animal is obviously feeling pain, but not to the extent we are and they cannot associate other thoughts like a sharp object, or watching an animal before it get killed and imagine it happening to itself. ANother rreason why cattle, pigs etc are said to not really know what is going on, because it lacks the association of ideas.

[Ezzie.]

Gomme i fullwell accept that if you cut the fat out then it makes it less harmful, it wasn't what i was getting at, if you look at the consumption of meat in say the united states (another country yes i know but we all live on this world together) it's just ridiculous, the amount of meat they eat is huge also, all that stuff rotting in your colon.. yum ^^ but meh.

Also: my main argument isn't with the health of meat, more with how we treat the animals before slaughter and at slaughter is my main concern, although it's been proven by the american diet association that cutting out meat has health benefits but alas, if you have meat in moderation (not just meat and two veg) then you'd be living alot healthier anyhow.

As i've stated before, i believe humans are primary vegetarians with the ability to eat meat in case of dire need (such as the boomeh[sp] tribe) they live mainly vegetarian but eat the blood of the cattle (a knife stuck into a vein, not actually killing the animal) they'll only kill them in dire famine etc.

And the second point comes down to morales.. i personally believe animals do feel pain whether it be mental or physical, cattle have been noted to experience very bad stress when they enter slaugter houses and see dead cattle around them, could that be seen as stress or just an instinctual warning to get out.. either way science can't prove it all until we get some sort of animal mind reading equipment ^^

Also one point, did you know chickens are as intelligent as most primates? So could they be seen as self aware and thus they feel pain when slaughtered?

[Simmzay]

I accept it when people choose a different lifestyle, if they claim there's a moral reasoning to it then I really don't care. It's when they impose their beliefs onto others that really bothers me. When I eat meat I am not "pro-slaughter-to-various-animals", I'm simply in need of a good meal. Separating indifference to intentional cruelty is what's important here.

[GommeInc]

Gomme i fullwell accept that if you cut the fat out then it makes it less harmful, it wasn't what i was getting at, if you look at the consumption of meat in say the united states (another country yes i know but we all live on this world together) it's just ridiculous, the amount of meat they eat is huge also, all that stuff rotting in your colon.. yum ^^ but meh.

Ah the American diet makes me sick, I can eat meat yes, but I wouldn't actually want that much... I do like a mixture of everything. I think there was a show on ages ago that studied American people and they prodded what came out and apparently it wasnt very pretty. This was someone that ate far too much cake, kebabs, beef and it was all the cheap, badly prepared meat on top of that. So I can see why a vegetarian diet may make them healthier... Thankfully Europe and the UK are actually sorting out the issues with the preparation of meat and how the animals are treated, although it seems that there will always be some farms doing something wrong.

Also: my main argument isn't with the health of meat, more with how we treat the animals before slaughter and at slaughter is my main concern, although it's been proven by the american diet association that cutting out meat has health benefits but alas, if you have meat in moderation (not just meat and two veg) then you'd be living alot healthier anyhow.

Which is what I tend to do. I wouldn't eat just meat, it gets pretty sickly in the stomach which is why a mixture makes it digest easier and I do feel alot healthier eating a mixture of food. I seem to feel yucky without meat, but apparently my health requires a meat included diet along the lines. Whether that is true or not I don't know. I belive it was you who said something that you had to eat meat because it made you ill? My cousin is like that, but she doesn't mind helping prepare a meal which includes meat, she just can't stomach it.

As i've stated before, i believe humans are primary vegetarians with the ability to eat meat in case of dire need (such as the boomeh[sp] tribe) they live mainly vegetarian but eat the blood of the cattle (a knife stuck into a vein, not actually killing the animal) they'll only kill them in dire famine etc.

It's sort of a culture clash now it seems, I think because we've evolved in this country to have a meat included diet (for the obvious ones that can eat meat or do rather) we can make it readily available, while to a tribe such as the Boomeh (sp ) it isn't as easy to come by and they find it easier to grow crops and drink milk which they mix with the blood, which is making the animal last longer. Even though the thought of just cutting a vein makes me slightly ill for some strange reason :S

And the second point comes down to morales.. i personally believe animals do feel pain whether it be mental or physical, cattle have been noted to experience very bad stress when they enter slaugter houses and see dead cattle around them, could that be seen as stress or just an instinctual warning to get out.. either way science can't prove it all until we get some sort of animal mind reading equipment ^^

It's weird because there is no real answer, they feel pain, but no one actually knows if it is the same pain as we do and whether or not they associate the animal infront dying with what they may experience within a matter of seconds. If they let it suffer, then I disagree, I am all for a happy organic life before hand (and I tend to buy meat from animals which have eaten organic feed etc) but all this intense farming makes the meat taste differently and sometimes discusting because of how it suffered. Whether or not is felt anything at the time is really out of the case.

Also one point, did you know chickens are as intelligent as most primates? So could they be seen as self aware and thus they feel pain when slaughtered?

Urrrgh, I now need to think back to my Philosophy lessons. It depends in what way they are intelligent, like parrots can talk, but they're really just recording and playing back what someone has said to them, rather than forming real words or remembering them (although some breeds of parrot do remember things forever, some don't). I suppose if they were self-aware, they would do something to stop the harm of themselves and others. It's a weird subject to revolve around, I kinda slipped into sleep when it came to it

[CrazyColaist]

Vegans are odd people.

thanks ily2

anyway

we get our prot from fruit and vegibals.

[Rashelly]

I don't care if this is an old thread - it's on the first page anyway.
I just like laughing at these threads, everyone says they're vegetarian because they don't like the thought of animals being killed.
I think vegetarians are pathetic. Yes, I said pathetic.
Vegans on the other hand, I have no problem with - it's their beliefs, their life, they can do what they want with it.
Vegans cut meat and all produce that comes from animals out all together, because they feel it's wrong. Vegetarians are just doing a half-assed job, and are quite hypocritical IMO. How can someone be against killing/mistreating of animals and still eat/drink cheese/milk/eggs/fish etc? The animals are still being bred to serve that purpose - and will probably end up being slaughtered.
I also wonder how many people on this thread that claim to be vegan/vegetarian wear clothing/shoes made from animal parts, or eat crisps/sweets with animal produce in (not just dairy chocolate, most sweets&crisps contain something that came from an animal)

To conclude - vegetarians are stupid, vegans have the right to believe whatever they want
Oh yeah, you can live perfectly healthy eating meat or not eating meat, you just find other sources of nutrients.

One last thing - PETA is the devil in disguise. They blatantly use propaganda and celebrities to intice the gullable and young.

WOOHOO FOR LATE NIGHT RAMBLING.