Can we please have

[GommeInc]

You my sir have got to learn the practice of putting forward your opinions instead of imposing them. Believe it or not all of us are wrong sometimes, and that includes you. Statements like "these NEED to be filter" or "there is nothing to discuss" are extremely shortsighted and really will not get nothing done. If I'm entirely honest I just don't reply to your posts very much as you simply refuse to even consider any alternatives other than your own. There is a difference between taking a stand and being completely muleheaded.

Imposing them gets things done faster, you wouldn't belive the amount of criticism the whole management team gets behind the scenes. It's sooo slow to get things done. Professional websites, infact, even non-professional/informal websites get things done ASAP, not ATAIFTLFATCOTN (After Talking About It For Too Long For Anyone To Care Or To Notice). I'm not sure why it takes Habbox so long to make changes, even small ones. Something has gone drastically wrong or you pride yourselves on taking too many tasks on at once which of course leads to nothing getting done or tasks which were in discussions once, then nothing got done, then discussed again until someone actually does it. Where are the Forum Techies? The Forum Adminstrators? These are what all forums of this size have to ensure things get done, not one person called GM. Perhaps you need to think about hiring a Forum Manager or Forum Techies and Forum Admins and stop worrying about trust and security issues by enforcing the common act of getting people to use a seperate email, password and security question to that of MSN or other emails. It's common sense, for some reason it's overlooked many times on this and other forums. I even think Habbox had a GM and an FM, which seperated the word load quite well, or at least have Site Manager and Forum Manager, so you have less things to worry about and in time, making yourself look less of a control freak than you need to be.

I consider other alternatives, and they're the ones that don't work. Clearly you don't know how to handle a forum or even a site if you don't realise that when a group of members or even a majority of a community have concerns, you must listen to them and discuss with them these problems. Think of the council forums where some concerns were raised. It did work in terms of them getting an answer from the council and even AGMs and a few random discussions of why x change didn't happen. Look at other forums and other websites, they get things done. Perhaps you're just dimwitted *takes the moral low road and comments back with daft "offensive terms"* I believe when the council was around, you were quite a decent person, shame MAD put so many restraints on the council that it made you look bad. Loads of people were against you, and MAD in the council. It's obvious why it fell threw, terrible management skills. I hope you've improved from the ratty way out you took on the council, when you left because it was too much hassle. That was the end of the council because when MAD and sierk took over, nothing really meant anything. Hopefully you discover where MAD went wrong and where you needed to improve, even though the announcement of when MAD resigned made the other GMs look bad. I wouldn't exactly say MAD changed Habbox or Habbox Forum, the other GMs did their fair share and were better than MAD in their own ways as was MAD was better in others.

Also:

"there is nothing to discuss" is extremely shortsighted and really will not get nothing done.

I am sure prolonging changes by meaninglessly discussing them gets nothing done. Making changes ASAP because it's common sense, gets things done, especially when:

- Orgasm.ic isn't rude when orgasm is unfiltered.
- "Female dog" cannot possibly be used offensively towards a member, because stating if someone is a "female dog" is stupid when you do not know a member personally and most people will just laugh at them, mature or immature.
- Di.ck isn't rude when it's used by 10 year olds (which is under the age restriction for them forum anyway). Heck, even willy is unfiltered.

I could go on but they're obvious. What is there to discuss? You're just delaying easy changes that could be done within seconds and it gets one more task out the way.

If Habbox was a company, that man off the TV that swears at the management about getting things done would have a field day.

If you want to discuss things, discuss how you're going to get things done quicker in the future rather than pointlessly discuss something so trivial as a word filter. This forum would be so much better if things ran smoothly, but I suppose one of the major flaws with that is that Habbox has had a GM in different time zones for however many years it's been now. A simple MSN conference with whoever you so desperately need to discuss things with and tasks could be done so quickly and you'll get feedback instantly.

The reason we didn't post about it was because we have been looking at the arguments from this thread and using them to further our points in the FM forum. Had we said we are discussing this, discussion of this topic probably would have stopped and we would lose much of the valuable input that we are using to try and make the best decision possible.

Discuss it with the members? Why discuss one thing in two different forums? That's untidy :/ Or, tell them it's in discussion and that you are reading into the thread and all FUTURE replies to it and tell them the current news in the staff forums about it, like what the current idea is, what concerns you have etc. As you said, there are a fair few of mature members in this forum, they're sure to give you some feedback on any concerns. It'll make it all the less frustrating when it comes to talking to anyone in management, because we know exactly what you're doing and feel the same way of why this idea doesn't work. The fact it's kinda obvious anyway that these words are pointless and have been dotted about for years kinda puts fuel into the fire of why the world filter is restricting common, civilised conversation. That the big words are generally bad, then you get the small words which mean little and then the mid ranged words that could be used badly in a different context but do not require filtering but rather, moderation.

Cases are not so open and shut as you think - the biggest flaw in your thinking is using yourself as the model for the average HabboxForum member, believe it or not you and several of the posters in this thread are much more mature than the majority of HxF members, at least in terms of using swearing and insulting others. However we have to look at the big picture and since we have more of an insight and information on the moderation end its a much more difficult decision from our end, because if for example the alternative for rump gets overused we will have to place policies to halt it, or in Alex's case his moderation team will get more work and have less time to take care of other things, or simply to post around the forums and interact with the community.

The big word that was recently unfiltered, ***** was perhaps the only word that caused such an uproar and funnily enough, it's not seen as amazing. There was a month or two of people going crazy over it. You can't surely be thinking that unfiltering donkey and donkey's older brother with an R and E would turn out any worse? Calling someone an a*se isn't something spectacular as calling someone a *****, and I've dealt with grotty 12 year olds at a holiday club to know this. As long as you take them with a pinch of salt, it's all good. Nothing's more greater than seeing people take being called a ***** and turning it around and thinking nothing of it. Kiss and make up, or spend the rest of the time on the forum having a pointless e-grudge with someone Relax and chill :cool_blue

[le harry]

what gomme said.......

[Mrs.McCall]

I understand what you're saying there Gomme but you do tend to be a bit more forceful. Yes, I agree it is silly that it has taken this long for a decision to be made but in all fairness the recent site issues have caused uproar in all departments (especially news) meaning we're all really sidetracked so I think it'd be nice if you'd be a bit patient.

I do think, however, that management should really try to post quicker to say things are being discussed. When a decision is made on unfiltering a word there is a lot of consideration suprisingly. Moderators have to be OK with it because if anyone uses the word in a negative manner they still have to infract, it has to be approved by all members of management, the rules for moderators have to be updated on when the swearing infraction has to be used.

I think patience is a virtue here a bit especially considering current issues.

I have to say that I am very much happy with the arguments you give but the way you put them across sometimes is a bit forceful.

[Supersam]

I understand what you're saying there Gomme but you do tend to be a bit more forceful. Yes, I agree it is silly that it has taken this long for a decision to be made but in all fairness the recent site issues have caused uproar in all departments (especially news) meaning we're all really sidetracked so I think it'd be nice if you'd be a bit patient.

I do think, however, that management should really try to post quicker to say things are being discussed. When a decision is made on unfiltering a word there is a lot of consideration suprisingly. Moderators have to be OK with it because if anyone uses the word in a negative manner they still have to infract, it has to be approved by all members of management, the rules for moderators have to be updated on when the swearing infraction has to be used.

I think patience is a virtue here a bit especially considering current issues.

I have to say that I am very much happy with the arguments you give but the way you put them across sometimes is a bit forceful.

I disagree, I dont think they are that forceful and I agree with alot of what has been said.

[iJoe]

Penis will be next to go LM (really rude blocked word here!!) O

Remove the filter for a day, see what happens

[nvrspk4]

Professional websites, infact, even non-professional/informal websites get things done ASAP, not ATAIFTLFATCOTN (After Talking About It For Too Long For Anyone To Care Or To Notice).

You compare us to professionally staffed sites or non professional sites the workers have a fair degree of control over their lives. No.

Something has gone drastically wrong or you pride yourselves on taking too many tasks on at once which of course leads to nothing getting done or tasks which were in discussions once, then nothing got done, then discussed again until someone actually does it. Where are the Forum Techies? The Forum Adminstrators? These are what all forums of this size have to ensure things get done, not one person called GM. Perhaps you need to think about hiring a Forum Manager or Forum Techies and Forum Admins and stop worrying about trust and security issues by enforcing the common act of getting people to use a seperate email, password and security question to that of MSN or other emails.

Speak not of what you know not, a principle you really should look into. You make comments on Habbox management all the time. I felt the same way about the American government until I took an AP Gov class and was a little more forgiving of the inefficiency. Let me give you an example. If we did not stick everyone to a standard decision making process, unbans or certain decisions would have results based on who made the decision. Thus the decision would be a matter of luck, or you contacting that member of management who was then overloaded. On top of that, it might be a bad decision.

We do have security measures intact, very stringent security measures that were put into place, the latest hacking was an extremely freak circumstance and we cannot always account for freak circumstances. We have a Forum Manager, he just happens to be called the Moderation Manager. And he is a big part of the decision making process, he mostly lead the discussion on this issue. There will be discussion else there will be rash decisions and rapid reversals. When we offer you something it will be after we've made a good decision on it. If its really non-trivial it will be decided instantly obviously but if its not we want to make a good decision. While this has a detrimental bit of taking longer for rational suggestions, the upside you don't think about is that nobody who's extremely conservative will have the ability to unilaterally and irrationally shoot it down without hearing about it from other members of management.

It's common sense, for some reason it's overlooked many times on this and other forums. I even think Habbox had a GM and an FM, which seperated the word load quite well, or at least have Site Manager and Forum Manager, so you have less things to worry about and in time, making yourself look less of a control freak than you need to be.

FM is basically a glorified moderation manager - the difference being that theoretically the FM was in charge of a good environment, though the forum department always focused on moderation, so your discussion of the reinstatement of a forum manager is really quite pointless. We have a "site" manager in terms of Mr.OSH, who takes a lot of responsibility for me, he individually deals with dept managers for the Content aspect, so I don't have to direct every single department.

I consider other alternatives, and they're the ones that don't work. Clearly you don't know how to handle a forum or even a site if you don't realise that when a group of members or even a majority of a community have concerns, you must listen to them and discuss with them these problems. Think of the council forums where some concerns were raised. It did work in terms of them getting an answer from the council and even AGMs and a few random discussions of why x change didn't happen. Look at other forums and other websites, they get things done.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Believe it or not there are loads of threads discussing forum changes, we have just opted to make all changes on Sundays from now on to standardize it and give members something to look forward to, also giving ourselves a deadline instead of allowing ourselves to continually put it off with no clear deadline. We're moving forward in terms of time efficiency, not backwards. Had you waited before spewing your usual nonsense, you would have found that out.

Perhaps you're just dimwitted *takes the moral low road and comments back with daft "offensive terms"* I believe when the council was around, you were quite a decent person, shame MAD put so many restraints on the council that it made you look bad. Loads of people were against you, and MAD in the council. It's obvious why it fell threw, terrible management skills. I hope you've improved from the ratty way out you took on the council, when you left because it was too much hassle.

The reason it fell through was it was a committment that I took merely because I was the only one who could take it. I got assigned the position - I didn't volunteer. Please don't make personal attacks on my management, they really won't get you anywhere. That was your biggest problem with MAD - you were an idealist. You believed so long as you were right, you should be in the clear. The world doesn't work that way, we are humans. The harder line you take, the less likely you are to make your opponent see your side. This is fine if you are facing off against an opponent for the votes of another entity, such as an election, but when you want that opponent to decide on something, its a terrible way to get at it.

That was the end of the council because when MAD and sierk took over, nothing really meant anything. Hopefully you discover where MAD went wrong and where you needed to improve, even though the announcement of when MAD resigned made the other GMs look bad. I wouldn't exactly say MAD changed Habbox or Habbox Forum, the other GMs did their fair share and were better than MAD in their own ways as was MAD was better in others.

MAD was good at parts and bad at parts, but I really see no relevance to the issue at hand.

I am sure prolonging changes by meaninglessly discussing them gets nothing done. Making changes ASAP because it's common sense, gets things done, especially when:

Once again, your use of the word prolonging is flawed

- Orgasm.ic isn't rude when orgasm is unfiltered.
- "Female dog" cannot possibly be used offensively towards a member, because stating if someone is a "female dog" is stupid when you do not know a member personally and most people will just laugh at them, mature or immature.
- Di.ck isn't rude when it's used by 10 year olds (which is under the age restriction for them forum anyway). Heck, even willy is unfiltered.

1) Being fixed
2) Wrong
3) Wrong

If you want to discuss things, discuss how you're going to get things done quicker in the future rather than pointlessly discuss something so trivial as a word filter. This forum would be so much better if things ran smoothly, but I suppose one of the major flaws with that is that Habbox has had a GM in different time zones for however many years it's been now. A simple MSN conference with whoever you so desperately need to discuss things with and tasks could be done so quickly and you'll get feedback instantly.

People don't spend the working day online, some are on three hours, some more. Even when I'm on during the UK day, I never have all the people I need at the same time. We make all the major/non essential changes on Sundays now and that is how we're going to do it. I don't see any urgency at all, and I don't see that you need to have words unfiltered or filtered within days so that you don't keel over.

Discuss it with the members? Why discuss one thing in two different forums? That's untidy :/

Because management make decisions too, we can get quite a grasp on what you're thinking in this thread, and usually the questions being raised are sufficiently answered in the threads. You speak of inefficiency, think of the inefficiency of debates with members.

Or, tell them it's in discussion and that you are reading into the thread and all FUTURE replies to it and tell them the current news in the staff forums about it, like what the current idea is, what concerns you have etc. As you said, there are a fair few of mature members in this forum, they're sure to give you some feedback on any concerns.

We do usually reply, I believe administrators had replied to this thread and I left it at that - I did not feel it fair to reply unless I had the time to write out a big long reply and at the time I saw this I was dealing with forming some goals for departments. A simple post saying "This is being discussed" would be merely aggravating to members, and feeling like their voice had been completely cut out of it - which it was not. I am not going to inform you of every decision management makes because we're not here to serve you foot and hand, nor would that make us any more efficient.

It'll make it all the less frustrating when it comes to talking to anyone in management, because we know exactly what you're doing and feel the same way of why this idea doesn't work. The fact it's kinda obvious anyway that these words are pointless and have been dotted about for years kinda puts fuel into the fire of why the world filter is restricting common, civilised conversation. That the big words are generally bad, then you get the small words which mean little and then the mid ranged words that could be used badly in a different context but do not require filtering but rather, moderation.

Here's the deal, the forum is inhabited by many, many, immature forum members. Like it or not, the mature members experience censorship due to the others. This is the community you choose to stay with, therefore you accept its flaws. We do not make decisions based on a very mature teen community, we make decisions based on the HabboxForum community - which we do have a better understanding of than you because while you are limited to certain forums, our moderators span a lot of forums so we get feedback from different groups, if we broke members down by the sections they used the contrasts would be stunning.

The big word that was recently unfiltered, ***** was perhaps the only word that caused such an uproar and funnily enough, it's not seen as amazing. There was a month or two of people going crazy over it. You can't surely be thinking that unfiltering donkey and donkey's older brother with an R and E would turn out any worse? Calling someone an a*se isn't something spectacular as calling someone a *****, and I've dealt with grotty 12 year olds at a holiday club to know this. As long as you take them with a pinch of salt, it's all good. Nothing's more greater than seeing people take being called a ***** and turning it around and thinking nothing of it. Kiss and make up, or spend the rest of the time on the forum having a pointless e-grudge with someone Relax and chill :cool_blue

***** is going to be refiltered due to us trying it and finding through experience that its not being used in a mature fashion and only being used to insult for the most part. Kiss and make up, relax and chill, good advice, nobody heeds it. Well few do. And those that do suffer at the hands of the many. This forum will not operate based on your maturity level - we operate on a maturity level we believe the forum can maintain, and that is how it will be.






You don't have to read that, then at least this. First of all, the way you debate is severely flawed. As I said, you're debating for an audience, not for persuasion. Your method of debate is incredibly unforgiving and quite frankly makes us not want to enact the changes. You have to make concessions, and those you make none of. You can take a hard-line, yes, but that won't get you anywhere really.

From the FM thread I saw about this, I was ready to make certain changes. I will not lie when I say I considered reversing such changes after reversing the sheer arrogance of your post, immature and juvenile as that impulse might be. But its human, and your idealism really doesn't work. There was a time when we just decided that we weren't replying to your posts, because you refused to yield at all, and nobody else could be right so long as Gomme was right. Someone asked me what I was doing, I said replying to one of your posts, they said "Why the hell would you do that?"

Basically, the way you argue has a lot to do with the way things get done. Additionally, I can blow off the larger parts of rants on policy and summarize easily. Rants on my efficiency, attacks on my managers, or putting down any of my staff or the work they do results in me systematically trying to destroy the argument and pick it apart piece by piece. If there's one thing I take pride in doing - its protecting my staff. Individually, my staff are more important to me than members, on a one on one basis, unless they've done something they shouldn't. Of course, I think about the members too - I was one of them and I haven't forgotten what it was like to not get responses to PMs and all that jazz. And as GM I now do have to put the members more or less first - but you must remember I was an AGM staff so if you try and put down the organization I feel compelled to defend the hard work all the guys and gals put in. And please don't feed me the "I respect the work they do" because I know you do, but you are openly challenging their efficiency, their dedication, and perhaps even their intentions, and that I will not stand for.

Oh by the way, you realize how much time we waste trying to satisfy the craving for response to feedback?

[GommeInc]

You compare us to professionally staffed sites or non professional sites the workers have a fair degree of control over their lives. No.

No I don't? And even if I did, take a chapter out of their books. Their forums work smoothly, with this, you have to argue repeatedly to get your point across.

Speak not of what you know not, a principle you really should look into. You make comments on Habbox management all the time. I felt the same way about the American government until I took an AP Gov class and was a little more forgiving of the inefficiency. Let me give you an example. If we did not stick everyone to a standard decision making process, unbans or certain decisions would have results based on who made the decision. Thus the decision would be a matter of luck, or you contacting that member of management who was then overloaded. On top of that, it might be a bad decision.

Ooo, reminds me of philosophy. As my teacher said in reply to something as daft as comparing government to the workings of a forum: "Speak not of what doesn't compare." The works of a forum can be seen by anyone. The works of a government cannot be seen as easily and in some aspects, cannot be seen by anyone at all! So yes, using the government as an example is stupid, when anyone can view how a forum works. Anyone can even have a say on how a forum works, because a forum extracts the workings of common day activities, hobbies and conversations and puts them into place. A government is higher up in a hierarchy compared to a forum, because forums most likely have to follow the goverment in some way because the forum creators e.g. vBulletin must follow the law, so therefore any forum breaking the law is removed.

We do have security measures intact, very stringent security measures that were put into place, the latest hacking was an extremely freak circumstance and we cannot always account for freak circumstances. We have a Forum Manager, he just happens to be called the Moderation Manager. And he is a big part of the decision making process, he mostly lead the discussion on this issue. There will be discussion else there will be rash decisions and rapid reversals. When we offer you something it will be after we've made a good decision on it. If its really non-trivial it will be decided instantly obviously but if its not we want to make a good decision. While this has a detrimental bit of taking longer for rational suggestions, the upside you don't think about is that nobody who's extremely conservative will have the ability to unilaterally and irrationally shoot it down without hearing about it from other members of management.

Moderator Manager = Manages Moderators. I don't see forum in there. So a "Cat Moderator" must also be a "Frankfurter Manager." If the Moderator Manager manages the forum and the workings of the background areas of the forum, then he is a Forum Manager. A Community Manager, coincidently manages the community. Moderation is only one fraction of a forum. In order for moderation, you need catagories, rules, guildlines, forums, threads, members, posts, polls, PMs, systems and so on. So what you are saying is, the Moderator Manager is just the confusing, mis-used title for someone who is actually a Forum Manager? It's like Assistant General Manager argument again, where the AGMs aren't actually AGMs, they're senior managers/staff.

You don't know what the hell you're talking about. Believe it or not there are loads of threads discussing forum changes, we have just opted to make all changes on Sundays from now on to standardize it and give members something to look forward to, also giving ourselves a deadline instead of allowing ourselves to continually put it off with no clear deadline. We're moving forward in terms of time efficiency, not backwards. Had you waited before spewing your usual nonsense, you would have found that out.

Urrgh, why don't you just do things immediately? Standardizing and scheduling changes never works, and give members something to look forward to? Pah, as you know, we're not told anything until an argument appears because of it. Looking forward to means we know something is going to change. Mainly because of the terrible communication skills. What you're suggesting is changing things without noticing people, which is a surprise. Deadlines aren't scheduled for x day of the week. Deadlines also have random dates e.g. 14th July = End of Schoo/Start of Summer Term. Why don't you deadline something which gives you, say a week to do something? "Oh look, someone has been stabbed! It's Monday so umm, we'll have to deal with the rules in a weeks time just so we look tidy and give people something to look forward to."

The reason it fell through was it was a committment that I took merely because I was the only one who could take it. I got assigned the position - I didn't volunteer. Please don't make personal attacks on my management, they really won't get you anywhere. That was your biggest problem with MAD - you were an idealist. You believed so long as you were right, you should be in the clear. The world doesn't work that way, we are humans. The harder line you take, the less likely you are to make your opponent see your side. This is fine if you are facing off against an opponent for the votes of another entity, such as an election, but when you want that opponent to decide on something, its a terrible way to get at it.

So did aload of other council members, because we had strong evidence to get things changed, but for some reason management took the ideas, changed them and went against what the council wanted and what was in the best interests of the members. But as with most things, it dies down and people get used to it. Even though a few weeks later the reputation argument came back up even though it was changed. Members agreed with the changes, except the one thing that was the major item on the list, which was how many people you must rep to rep the same person again. Again, management made some daft, unagreeable reason and left it, even though anyone can see how it would of changed and how it would work, but for some reason management couldn't. I pull back the, "anyone can run a forum" argument. It's not special and anyone can do it.

Once again, your use of the word prolonging is flawed

In what sense? A flurry of members agree that the word filter needs the change through reasoning alone you can see it.

1) Being fixed
2) Wrong
3) Wrong

How? Again, no reason, just a "wrong" comment. It's right and right, the B word isn't offensive in modern day, youth culture and D has never been offensive. So if they are both wrong, then why is ***** right?

People don't spend the working day online, some are on three hours, some more. Even when I'm on during the UK day, I never have all the people I need at the same time. We make all the major/non essential changes on Sundays now and that is how we're going to do it. I don't see any urgency at all, and I don't see that you need to have words unfiltered or filtered within days so that you don't keel over.

Because loads of the members are fed up having to wait ages for changes, and it's been Sunday now and still no change. It doesn't take more than week to discuss the filter. Most of the discussing was done on Day 1.

Because management make decisions too, we can get quite a grasp on what you're thinking in this thread, and usually the questions being raised are sufficiently answered in the threads. You speak of inefficiency, think of the inefficiency of debates with members.

What a stupid thing to say, when you debate with members and management to get things done aswell. You're discussing this thread with members/management, chucking arguments for each case around to get an answer. Sounds like debating to me. Also, members were debating in this thread about what words they want changed. So you are saying members are inefficent?

We do usually reply, I believe administrators had replied to this thread and I left it at that - I did not feel it fair to reply unless I had the time to write out a big long reply and at the time I saw this I was dealing with forming some goals for departments. A simple post saying "This is being discussed" would be merely aggravating to members, and feeling like their voice had been completely cut out of it - which it was not. I am not going to inform you of every decision management makes because we're not here to serve you foot and hand, nor would that make us any more efficient.

Saying something is better than saying nothing at all And no-one listens to administrators, it's management people listen to. And it takes less than a few seconds to say, "We're discussing this thread now. If you have anything to add, do keep discussing them." Better than leaving it blank. And again, why discuss it in secret with management, when it's public forum so any decisions effect a large area? Should be discussed with members, rather than letting it be member v member.

Here's the deal, the forum is inhabited by many, many, immature forum members. Like it or not, the mature members experience censorship due to the others. This is the community you choose to stay with, therefore you accept its flaws. We do not make decisions based on a very mature teen community, we make decisions based on the HabboxForum community - which we do have a better understanding of than you because while you are limited to certain forums, our moderators span a lot of forums so we get feedback from different groups, if we broke members down by the sections they used the contrasts would be stunning.

As far as I am aware, what members think of a forum isn't discussed in random forums and threads like "Selling throne, 60 CS!" As we all know, moderators don't do surveys and randomly PM members asking what they think, it usually draws back to the feedback forums, where there is an actual discussion going on. Not "I want 62CS for my throne" :rolleyes: And these immature member have proven to not be much of a problem when a word is unfiltered. I bring back the word ***** again. That died down, accept that fact

***** is going to be refiltered due to us trying it and finding through experience that its not being used in a mature fashion and only being used to insult for the most part. Kiss and make up, relax and chill, good advice, nobody heeds it. Well few do. And those that do suffer at the hands of the many. This forum will not operate based on your maturity level - we operate on a maturity level we believe the forum can maintain, and that is how it will be.

So? That's what moderators are for, and what changes will it make to their work load? None, because if a member wants to offend someone, they will through other words. So re-filtering it will not prove anything nor give any solutions :/ You should know, of all people, that through experience, words do not matter and if a member wants to offend, they will through other words and sentences/phrases. Again, you bring me up when it's not just my opinion, others have the same opinion, mature or immature. Do you not go outside or look at others talking? There are more words out their than *****. I could go around calling people a douche bag if I wanted to offend people. And if that gets filtered, more other words like idiot, stupid, dumby etc etc. The maturity of a forum will not change through filtering words, it cannot change. It's completely dynamic. Filtering ***** will just mean one less word out of millions to offend people. Tis pointless to refilter it, you don't need to be a manager, moderator or anyone like this to see that.

You don't have to read that, then at least this. First of all, the way you debate is severely flawed. As I said, you're debating for an audience, not for persuasion. Your method of debate is incredibly unforgiving and quite frankly makes us not want to enact the changes. You have to make concessions, and those you make none of. You can take a hard-line, yes, but that won't get you anywhere really.

Can't take the heat, get out of the fire is all I say. Don't make the changes or don't give any good reasons is putting fuel in the fire. You bring it upon yourself. How is it flawed? Your method of debating is flawed to, because you don't give an answer, you just give excuses and then the circle of me pointing out why it should change continues and you continue to babble on about why you don't give answers.

From the FM thread I saw about this, I was ready to make certain changes. I will not lie when I say I considered reversing such changes after reversing the sheer arrogance of your post, immature and juvenile as that impulse might be. But its human, and your idealism really doesn't work. There was a time when we just decided that we weren't replying to your posts, because you refused to yield at all, and nobody else could be right so long as Gomme was right. Someone asked me what I was doing, I said replying to one of your posts, they said "Why the hell would you do that?"

Not sure where this breed of management came from, because as far as I am aware people disagree with you too, not just me. You would not believe how many times I have been told about changes. It gets boring and old rather fast. And I don't feel I am right, not at all. Everyone makes mistakes, but what is incredibly irritating is this "big man" attitude and how you feel you're always right and that being a part of management means you are smarter and feel that members are disposable. It fails, creates conflicts and makes a place unpleasant. This forum was once rich with fun conversations and creativity, now all that is labeled as pointless. Having fun = pointless. The only things I find enjoyable are the members. I have fun talking to some of them and I feel that some changes the management do ruin it for them and for themselves. If you were so good as a manager, why are we arguing now? Surely something is wrong? Why is Arch arguing about the WoW Thread being closed? Why did Jake leave? Why is there a lack of freedom with what members do? Because of restrictions which create conflicts such as this thread. And what you said below backs up with why you're a bad General Manager, care for your members and your staff. Take what both say and listen, not argue. If something cannot be done, give a clear answer - Don't hide it behind the staff roles and behind the scenes. It's a forum and a fansite, not some company where any gossip from behind the scenes is strictly confidential. MAD hid things and sometimes never gave a proper answer, but he certainly gave clearer answers than you. Infact, just before he quit things were looking up. As some people have said (and I will keep their names hidden), things look like they're going to go backwards until you get your act together. Heck, another said you should think about members more than staff. So before you have a go at me for pointing out your weakness, look at yourself and point out why they could be true. Because until you start thinking about members, you're not going to get anywhere.

I do respect the staff, naturally. I don't have any criticisms with the majority of the staff. Infact, I can only think of the management team. Moderators are doing their jobs as they have been told, which is what you want. It's just a shame the brains of the outfit doesn't quite understand the workings of members. You're a GM, you don't know how a member thinks, you're too busy to change things rather than sit and reflect. Usually when members are arguing about a department, it falls back down to restrictions put on the departments making them powerless. Not sure if you were around when Habbos.co.uk existed, that worked well. Not sure what makes the staff at Habbox lose passion in their jobs, but they weren't heavily staffed as Habbox and did a tremendous job, especially with communication, competitions and feedback. They took the positive outlook on running the site, while Habbox takes a negative look at everything, by questioning the member, rather than the question and not giving a suitable answer.

You really need to think more about members. Perhaps get JackHb and Seacat back, they did and did a good at looking after things too. Since 8Freak8 it's all been about keeping staff happy and taking an aggressive stand against members.

[jrh2002]

NVR has been in his new role a few weeks so I think he deserves some time to put things right. From what I have seen he is far more in touch with the majority of the forum members than most here are used to and by his posts shows hes human and not some sort or robot with no idea what the community wants like some have been. he may have been a AGM for some time but even though AGM's gave their input regarding many changes if it was any different to what the superiors wanted then their opinions counted for nothing and the changes went ahead.
We are not all going to agree on everything but I believe you will see plenty of changes that will be taken that will benefit the whole community.

I personally think Habbo should give all fansites a copy of their word filter every time its updated and that should be used on HxF. If VB bring out an option for us to turn our filters off individually then great but until then it should be as strict as habbos filter when you have it on.

[Nereo]

There is a tendency for Habbox management to treat themselves as a professional company, and I dont think anyone can deny that their is that feeling of "this is a company" that you dont get at other fansites.

However, thats not necessarily a bad thing, Habbox is well ran and reasonably efficient, obviously they are doing something right to be the Number one UK fansite.

However, I agree that sometimes there have been cases where so many people have thought one thing and management have either done a different thing or not done entirely what the majority of people have been saying.

So yeah, I think Gomme and nvr are both correct in some of what they have said, and both wrong in other parts. You will never be able to please everyone.

[Mrs.McCall]

We are much larger than a lot of the other fansites. There is a much larger range of staff and departments and there is a lot of different levels so there has to be some restriction or everyone would just run wild all over the place.

I do think that the word should be unfiltered and it may just well be but they are discussing it and we should appreciate that and leave it a lone and then, in 2 months, post a new thread if it doesn't happen then.

Habbox is a site that runs for the members. Everything is for the members benefit... events, productions, news, articles, rare values, help desk etc etc so I think the argument that the members aren't number one priority is a bit flawed.

I think an appreciation of the fact that there are strict systems in place before anything happens should be given because everyone works very hard. I know that myself being a manager. As a member I know that too. Everything is discussed at great length to ensure it is best for members and the community. Nvr works extremely, extremely hard as do the entire of management and I know that from working closely with him during Habbo Big Brother when he'd be up really late (don't forget he lives in USA) making sure everything runs smoothly.

Gomme I think you're a very much valued member and you have great ideas but sometimes I think you need to calm down a bit because you're right... there is no right or wrong answer but there is a wrong way to put it across and I think sometimes you take the route of insulting management or the way things are run and that immediately gets people's backs up because we all work very hard to keep the site and the forum running.