Prisoner's rights... has it gone a bit too far?

[-:Undertaker:-]

That's utter rubbish. With my uncle being the head of a prison and the other side of my family being in and out of prison on a frequent basis none of them say it's a vacation. On a vacation you can do what you want as and when you want. None of us can say the truth as our opinions are second hand and or media driven. I guarantee though that if any of us spent a week in prison we'd hate it so much and it wouldn't be much like a vacation. If you think it's like a vacation then hey stop going to school or working or whatever it is you may do and go and kill someone! One big vacation... oh wait... :rolleyes:

So why do they keep committing crime which lands them back in prison?

Because not having freedom and stuck in a building (regardless of the facilities) must be fab.

Again, so why do they keep re-offending which surrenders their freedom - if it is so bad, why are they so intent on going back?

[immense]

That's who they are, some people aren't as fortunate as ourselves and you have to remember that rather than having blinkered vision. The majority of people in this country don't commit crime because they're scared of the consequences, i.e. prison and losing their freedom. Some people have to commit crime to lead their lives and don't forget without certain levels of crime we'd have no social change. A certain amount of crime is beneficial but that's a whole new different debate.

[Inseriousity.]

That's who they are, some people aren't as fortunate as ourselves and you have to remember that rather than having blinkered vision. The majority of people in this country don't commit crime because they're scared of the consequences, i.e. prison and losing their freedom. Some people have to commit crime to lead their lives and don't forget without certain levels of crime we'd have no social change. A certain amount of crime is beneficial but that's a whole new different debate.

lol durkheim's an idiot although he is right here, I suppose.

People re-offend because the rehabilitation system is completely wrong. That's not to say that locking them up will solve it but giving them qualifications are useless because when they get out, they can't adapt back into the 'normal' system.

[immense]

lol durkheim's an idiot although he is right here, I suppose.

People re-offend because the rehabilitation system is completely wrong. That's not to say that locking them up will solve it but giving them qualifications are useless because when they get out, they can't adapt back into the 'normal' system.

Was hoping you wouldn't see me bringing my sociology in :L As the course progresses, I think Durkheim is right more and more, haha. Criminals can't get back because into normal society because they're not given the opportunity. It's a vicious circle. They can only get part time jobs or low paid jobs once they've committed a crime. Once they need more money, they turn to crime again and it just goes around and round.

[-:Undertaker:-]

That's who they are, some people aren't as fortunate as ourselves and you have to remember that rather than having blinkered vision. The majority of people in this country don't commit crime because they're scared of the consequences, i.e. prison and losing their freedom. Some people have to commit crime to lead their lives and don't forget without certain levels of crime we'd have no social change. A certain amount of crime is beneficial but that's a whole new different debate.

Was hoping you wouldn't see me bringing my sociology in :L As the course progresses, I think Durkheim is right more and more, haha. Criminals can't get back because into normal society because they're not given the opportunity. It's a vicious circle. They can only get part time jobs or low paid jobs once they've committed a crime. Once they need more money, they turn to crime again and it just goes around and round.

The central point you just mentioned can be answered to by this; a lot of people need money yet they dont go out and commit crime, not having money is not an excuse to commit crime or do you dispute that?

A lot of people are not well off all over the country and probably never will be yet they dont turn to crime, stop making excuses for them - if you commit a crime then you do the time. You (the individual) have chosen to commit that crime therefore you should pay the price because you have harmed others who do not commit crime and stay within the law. Why should criminals be treated as though its not their fault and its the fault of everybody else - wrong, it is their fault and nobody elses fault but their own. I said earlier that for a lot of people prison is better than the outside yet you disputed this, but now you have just basically admitted that it is better because they cant get jobs etc so they end up in prison again - suggesting that prison is better for some people than the outside is and thats why they keep reoffending.

..so how would you sort the justice system out?

Give them housing at the expense of the taxpayer/people genuinely in need of social housing?
Give them qualifications despite the fact they werre given the same chance as the rest of us in the first place?
Get them a job at the expense of normal hard working people?
Give them rehabiliation at the expense of peoples safety?

Crime isnt something that need rewarding, its something that needs punishing.

[Swastika]

The only thing within this thread that is ludicrous is how driven you lot are by tabloids. I don't know why I'm surprised seeing as there is a heavy UKIP following which is almost just as ludicrous. Lucky the wider general public are more clued up and know what is good for the country. When people are comparing prison to vacation when they've never been themselves it's ridiculous and clearly as you think you know everything you're agreeing with them. Let me tell you something to aid your understand, when I went on vacation, I was free to do as I please, spent time with my friends and had a splendid time. I wasn't stuck in an allocated area 24 hours of the day, like prisoners are.

I might be getting on your nerves, I couldn't give one. It's a forum, this is where discussion happens. If you're unable to comprehend opposing views then it's not the place for you quite simply. Although, everybody is disagreeing with me I'm not going to step back and post my opinions. Unlike prisoners, I can discuss what I want on here .

Now to your questions...

Do you agree the British legal system is a joke?

Nope.

Do you agree that criminals are not getting long enough sentences?

Maybe but that isn't what this topic is about. However, I hear just as often a case where I think a sentence is too long and where I think a sentence is too short. It's subjective and therefore it's never going to be 100% accurate.

Do you agree that criminals are not afraid of prison?

The majority are, yes. Of course, they are. It's crazy to suggest anything but.

None of my points were driven by tabloids, they're driven from education.
Why have you brung UKIP up in a post answering to my post? I do not support UKIP and UKIP has nothing to do with my post. :S
Vacation? Again why are you bringing up yet another irrelevant point in a reply to my post?

Please re-read my post and then try and answer to it, maybe you've got this wrong and i think you need to understand that forums aren't for you when you can't even answer to a simple post without bringing up irrelevant and invalid points.

[-:Undertaker:-]

The only thing within this thread that is ludicrous is how driven you lot are by tabloids. I don't know why I'm surprised seeing as there is a heavy UKIP following which is almost just as ludicrous. Lucky the wider general public are more clued up and know what is good for the country. When people are comparing prison to vacation when they've never been themselves it's ridiculous and clearly as you think you know everything you're agreeing with them. Let me tell you something to aid your understand, when I went on vacation, I was free to do as I please, spent time with my friends and had a splendid time. I wasn't stuck in an allocated area 24 hours of the day, like prisoners are.

I missed this but its worth a reply anyway. You disagree with UKIPs stance on crime(?) which is that; we need to build more prisons because (main reasons are listed below);

- We only have 80,000 places for a country with a population of over 60 million.
- We have dangerous criminals being allowed out of prison re-offending.
- We have crime in general out of control with prisons full and people recieving pitiful sentences for murder.

..yet you imply that UKIP & its policy concerning crime & justice are ludicrous? :S

[kuzkasate]

Doherty, I never stated that they can wonder out of the cells. Like I said, I KNOW people that have been in prison and they all say the same things, so how you can you claim that what I say is "utter rubbish" when I know these people and they have told me?

[Inseriousity.]

Doherty, I never stated that they can wonder out of the cells. Like I said, I KNOW people that have been in prison and they all say the same things, so how you can you claim that what I say is "utter rubbish" when I know these people and they have told me?

lol and are these friends of yours the type of people who would much rather pretend to be tough and macho (it's just like a holiday, they weren't gonna mess with me, I was the toughest) than admit they were scared/frightened?

[kuzkasate]

lol and are these friends of yours the type of people who would much rather pretend to be tough and macho (it's just like a holiday, they weren't gonna mess with me, I was the toughest) than admit they were scared/frightened?

where did i state that they were my friends? no, they actually arent tough and they dont pretend to be, one got arrested for fighting with a police officer, so no, they dont think they're bad. they didnt say they were the toughest. and they werent scared or frightened, just worried about stuff, but most of the stuff wasnt related to jail.