Burn-A-Koran Day to be held on anniversary of 9/11, tension mounts

[Nemo]

for all you know i burn qu'ran daily to cook my food. they burn the bible and peoples faces and whatever all the time and we just look over it because they can do no wrong. So all power to him, although i think it will cause alot of trouble, i think someone needs to stand up and he seems to be the man to do it. It's a shame we can't all united until the muslims and fight for what is actually right rather than siding with them because we're all to scared to offend someone. IT'S GOOD TO BE OFFENDED IT MEANS YOU STAND FOR SOMETHING.

@Jay the bible is a story book, trust me i have read the whole thing as a christian and it's a story of how you should live BUT YES THEY'RE STORIES they're not a law book on how to live your lives the people who read them and believe them think they're an intimate word from god.

Wow, how old are you? I actually cant believe you're staff with such a, lets be honest now, stupid attitude. You honestly think its just okay to offend people because it means you stand up for something? So i should mindlessly offend you, infact its fine to offend you because im standing up for something? Stupidest logic ive ever heard. You must be trollin, because i dont even know how i can respond to that without being any ruder.

[GommeInc]

@Jay the bible is a story book, trust me i have read the whole thing as a christian and it's a story of how you should live BUT YES THEY'RE STORIES they're not a law book on how to live your lives the people who read them and believe them think they're an intimate word from god.

I somehow believe you've not read it because you've completely lost the point of the Bible and wouldn't have such a poorly thought out argument as the basis of your understanding.

"It's a story on how you should live" and "they're not a law book" both go slightly hand in hand, as in a sense it wasn't a law book, but a book of understanding morals, which set the course for many modern countries and their development, either through government or through a judicial system.

Also, many many muslims don't give a rats arse. Again, many people like you assume all Muslims are extremists, when many of them come here to indulge in our way of life as it "seems fairer" and want to be happy. Muslims have existed in the UK for years, and they go to our schools, wear our clothes and so forth. If anything it's modern Islam extremism which is causing problems, and even then it seems to be a minority :/

[Bun]

bad - hypocritical as it's a sign of disrespectful, racial hatred.



good - it's a ******* book.

[GommeInc]

good - it's a ******* book.

I sure hope you're joking, that the only good thing about this is because it's a book.

Let me think of a different example of burning a cat:

bad - it's animal cruelty and disgusting.

good - it's a cat

[-:Undertaker:-]

The people sending him death threats will be the extremists. They are the minority of people as you yourself have admitted earlier in this thread. As for when the Catholic Church is criticised, the same response is not provoked. If you go back and read the first post of mine in this thread, it possibly answers this question. There is a reaction but not a big one because Catholics are more reserved about their religion. They don't shout out generally, they keep their anger to themselves or moan about it in RE classrooms! That's not exactly the fault of Islam.

'More reserved about their religion' - in other words more civilised and I would agree with you. So now you've admitted that, the only reason you (or we as the western world) seem so afraid to upset Islam is because we think something big-time will kick off - in other words we are bending over backwards for a group of religious nutcases (because yes, it does appear as usual to be the extremists) who cannot stand their precious fairytale being insulted despite the fact it is everything our western leaders claim to hate - against homosexuality, against democracy and so forth.

It must be linked to Islam just as the hatred of homosexuals in the West was linked to the Bible. The differrence between the West and the Islamic world is that the West has been able to unhinge itself from the radical elements of religion whereas the Islamic world refuses to do so (again, the belief that Islam is set to conquer the world continues on).

If it is only the extremist minorty who are kicking off then we should be standing very firm (afterall is that not why we invaded two countries in the first place? in order to spread our 'democracy and freedom'). If it is the entire Islamic world who are on the verge of kicking off then it rather proves his point don't you think?

They're still invalid. He believes all muslims are plane popping, train stopping and bomb dropping individuals whos main aim is to disrupt and provoke terror. Burning the book is an attack on all the followers, most of which are perfectly good individuals who have more right to life than this silly waste of space who doesn't even know his own religion based on tolerence. You don't seem to understand this and seem to also believe all muslims are evil :/ Burning the book is an attack on the purpose of the book and those who follow it. It's not just an attack on those who are blind and stupid, like the terrorists who caused the 9/11 bombings :/

This man is just as bad as the people who is trying to teach a lesson, it solves nothing. Freedom of speech or nothing, it's stupid, when that so called "speech" has more faeces all over it than most modern day Governments. If he wants to attack extremists, he should shoot the gun at those involved in terrorism, then point the gun at himself.

Also, we have no control over the Muslim world, or the world that loves terror, and I certainly don't want to live in that pathetic little world where we're just as bad as them :/

I don't believe all muslims are evil and I haven't suggested that at all - I believe their religion is backward and has no place in the western world. Islam is totally incompatible with western values. The burning of a book may very well be an attack on the people who read it - and if it it then guess what? we leave in a supposed democracy. The idea that you are protected from being verbally attacked/insulted/offended is this crazy idea that has sprouted in which anything remotely negative or unsupportive of homosexuality, Islam, multi-culturalism is evil.

Freedom of speech and expression is only devalued when you start worrying about upsetting people.

People take religion super seriously, people have wars over it for god sake, death threats are nothing in comparison.

Also, i can imagine people getting very angry over it. Im guessing you dont know what its like to be stereotyped and generalised, but its extremely terrible. So yes, having their religion that they care about so much, and some dedicate their lives to, being disgraced because of a few individuals is actually a very horrible thing so of course they'll be outraged. Im sorry but until you realise that, you should honestly stop.

As i said in all these threads though after i make my point, i find religious stupid and pointless and we'd be better off without it.

I don't care whether people dedicate their lives to Islam, the Catholic Church, the European Union, the Labour Party, the government, whitehall - anything. I have the right (so does Terry Jones, so do you) to insult, question or label a religion in any way that I wish. The book of Islam is not above the gurantees of freedom, he is entitled to burn that book just as any 'red neck' Christian who rejects Darwanism is entitled to burn a book of Charles Darwin.

So my point is still standing here, why is it that everybody remains so afraid of offending the Islamic world and yet so unwilling to be able to defend freedom of speech and expression when it is under attack?

You don't have to agree with him to understand that he has a right to burn the Koran if he so wishes.

Any religion you say it about is not right.

If people wish to follow a religion they can, the only people who should be punished are the extremists found in ALL religions might I point out.

The difference is that most other religions don't seem to kick off in such a way that we are seeing today.

i believe in free speech and free will, but this is just a disgusting hate crime.
if no-one has respect for anyone or anything, how can we all expect to live together?

Then you don't believe in free speech and free will if you are prepared to cast it aside in order to keep a group of religious fanatics happy and under control. On the one hand in this thread we are being told its the minority who are kicking off - in which case why are we prepared to simply cast aside our values to keep them happy? on the other hand it is suggested that if this man burns this book, the entire Islamic faith will kick off big time - in which case does that not prove his point?

He has no respect for the Koran no, and that is his right in a free and fair country to hold that view. Freedom of speech/expression laws were afterall created to defend the unpopular views, not the popular views.

[Nemo]

I don't care whether people dedicate their lives to Islam, the Catholic Church, the European Union, the Labour Party, the government, whitehall - anything. I have the right (so does Terry Jones, so do you) to insult, question or label a religion in any way that I wish. The book of Islam is not above the gurantees of freedom, he is entitled to burn that book just as any 'red neck' Christian who rejects Darwanism is entitled to burn a book of Charles Darwin.

So my point is still standing here, why is it that everybody remains so afraid of offending the Islamic world and yet so unwilling to be able to defend freedom of speech and expression when it is under attack?

You don't have to agree with him to understand that he has a right to burn the Koran if he so wishes.

I think you've misunderstood most peoples answers. Its not that they are scared to stand up against it, its just that there is no reason to. Its quite obviously an idiotic to do. He has the right yes, but like i said, its just plain idiotic. Why fuel the fire when there is no reason to, what does he get out of it? Nothing, just creates more hate and a larger divide between 2 seperate communities, and gives terrorists another reason.

[GommeInc]

I don't believe all muslims are evil and I haven't suggested that at all - I believe their religion is backward and has no place in the western world. Islam is totally incompatible with western values. The burning of a book may very well be an attack on the people who read it - and if it it then guess what? we leave in a supposed democracy. The idea that you are protected from being verbally attacked/insulted/offended is this crazy idea that has sprouted in which anything remotely negative or unsupportive of homosexuality, Islam, multi-culturalism is evil.

Freedom of speech and expression is only devalued when you start worrying about upsetting people.

Then you look at use, point and validity. It's incredibly pointless to burn a Qu'ran, there's no reason to when he seems to hate extremist Muslims. Burning the Qu'ran is much like burning a US flag - pointless and unnecessary - but apparently we hate these people so much we want to copy them. The man is clearly a stupid little boy with a title, and anyone else like him is incredibly stupid and just as bad as the extremists running around burning US flags and other trinkets associated with the western world. It's better not to take action in this form, because it's just proving we're no better. Islam is a bit backwards, but so was Christianity both in the past and in many parts of the Bible, and has a very violent back story, but it evolved. In some cases Islam has evolved, seeing as many Muslims do not follow the Qu'ran word for word, much like the Bible and Christians, they just hold the moral backstories which Christians also hold.

[Bun]

I sure hope you're joking, that the only good thing about this is because it's a book.

Let me think of a different example of burning a cat:

bad - it's animal cruelty and disgusting.

good - it's a cat

agreed, sly buggers.


but i was getting at the point of view it could be argued who should give a toss that a book is getting burned in a country which it is not prohibited from.

[MrPinkPanther]

I despise religion.

[Bun]

aye it's a load of ******** which people only conform to for a need to believe in something