Is Homosexual Adoption Right? (ENDS 24/7/11)

[buttons]

it's very highly unlikely that a child will get bullied all of their life for having two mums (remember it works both ways, I only see people saying dads) or two dads. the only way they would is if they had other aspects of them to bully about such as being a geek or something, take the nicest, friendliest person in the world who has two same sex parents and they will probably get the few insults here and there, same with a popular, attractive person whereas you take a person already likely to be a bully victim, then you can use the parents as another reason to bully. I do know people who have the same sex parents and while they are not exempt from insults, they are not treated half as bad as some of you make out and if you have witnessed that before then is that not a problem with society itself rather than the homosexual parents? I'm very much for homosexual adoption, children are happier with any form of closeness and caregiving be it with two males or even just older siblings than to have to go through various different carers. I do agree that a mother and father would be a more suitable choice but not always the best, like it's been said two caring fathers or two caring mothers are far better than an abusive father or emotionless mother. Adoption is a good thing providing theyre up to the jobs so I really have no problem with gay adoption at all..

[Tom]

it's very highly unlikely that a child will get bullied all of their life for having two mums (remember it works both ways, I only see people saying dads) or two dads. the only way they would is if they had other aspects of them to bully about such as being a geek or something, take the nicest, friendliest person in the world who has two same sex parents and they will probably get the few insults here and there, same with a popular, attractive person whereas you take a person already likely to be a bully victim, then you can use the parents as another reason to bully. I do know people who have the same sex parents and while they are not exempt from insults, they are not treated half as bad as some of you make out and if you have witnessed that before then is that not a problem with society itself rather than the homosexual parents? I'm very much for homosexual adoption, children are happier with any form of closeness and caregiving be it with two males or even just older siblings than to have to go through various different carers. I do agree that a mother and father would be a more suitable choice but not always the best, like it's been said two caring fathers or two caring mothers are far better than an abusive father or emotionless mother. Adoption is a good thing providing theyre up to the jobs so I really have no problem with gay adoption at all..

This is the point most people have been trying to put across. The majority of people say two men because mainly all boys have posted and find it easier to relate to them? Obviously with you having first hand experience it makes people more knowledgeable as to what actually goes on.

As most of the posts have stated they may get bullied, but that's why you need 2 mothers or 2 fathers, or even 1 of each. To be there to care for you and be there to help you with your problems and try and help you to stop getting bullied. If the bullying then doesn't stop and the teachers don't do anything then do something about it themselves then they'd do something themselves, that my friends is the point of having 'parents' - as long as they're caring parents and they love you, would you as a child be happy? Even over some stupid little kids bullying you because they don't get the same love as you do? Personally, I believe you would be happy and that even with the same sex parents you'd be happy because you are being CARED for (note how many times I've mentioned being 'cared for')

[-:Undertaker:-]

Suggesting that gay adoption can be argued against on the basis of liberty suggests that all conception ought to be banned in case the resulting life is not 100% perfect.

Thats not possible however, but with gay adoption we are talking about the ability of the state/Churches to make a choice on what is best for the child of which I do not believe gay adoption is the best outcome for a child.

There's nothing proven to say that two men or two women cannot effectively bring up a child, and to attempt to police influence on a child's upbringing would, I'm sure you'd agree, be a far greater attack on liberty than the possibility of them suffering socially at school - something which is a result of other peoples' actions outside the family, and only indirectly because of the situation at home.

However, thats the case with natural families. The problem with gay adoption or any adoption is that the children in the care of the state (as is usually the case) should be adopted out to a choice which is suitable - which is what we are arguing about. I simply do not find gay adoption suitable as I think the traditional family with both gender roles represented is by far the most superor form of family as shown by broken families on estates around this country.

Do you also believe that single persons should not be allowed to adopt or give birth? Should disabled folk and those without the financial means to give a child the best life have forced hysterectomies and vasectomies?

With single persons no I don't think its at all desirable that they adopt, again I would much prefer a traditional family to adopt. As for the second part, no because thats not the business of the state - adoption however is the business of the state because its the last resort for those children therefore the state should make an informed choice.

Again, should only 100% healthy heterosexual couples be allowed children? I believe that support ought to be placed on family life, but not necessarily the typical 2.4 children model as it simply isn't always the best way for a family to run. Divorce happens, and that can often be far better for the family than attempting to keep a loveless couple together and give the children a warped view of how families work.

The typical traditional family is by far the most superor model, again look at the results since divorce was made easier. We have estates now full of children who have a mother and the father figure is the state; the state provides the income, the state proves the benefits, the state provides the social workers who comes around every once in a while.

If it's lack of an opposing gender influence that worries you, consider that humans are generally somewhat social creatures and it's extremely rare for a child to grow up without a lot of input from family friends, and regardless of that "gender" a whole is in a species as advanced as ours something that's really only necessary as a sexual thing rather than social or mental.

However a mother and father figure are hard, if not impossible to replace as others have addressed.

as long as they're caring parents and they love you, would you as a child be happy?

So would you support a, to quote, 'loving' incest couple adopting? or how about polygamy relationship in which all those in the relationship 'love one another'? surely there's no problem as they all love one another, but for some reason I suspect your reply will be no because you simply wouldn't be comfortable with those two relationships adopting and wouldn't find it in the best interests of the child to be adopted by a couple comprised of a grandmother and a daughter for example or a man with 10 lovers.

[Rozi]

So far from what I've read of this thread, the main argument seems to be the issue that the children MIGHT get bullied from being adopted by a same sex couple? There are 2 issues with that, firstly in our harsh society, if you're going to get bullied for being adopted by a same-sex couple, you're more likely going to get bullied for living in a children's home or being fostered, which of course is highly likely if you're going to be adopted. Personally I've never seen or heard of someone getting bullied for either of these things apart from on Tracy Beaker (which of course isn't real and a Jacqueline Wilson version which is so far from reality it might as well be set on the moon).

Secondly there is the issue that there SHOULDN'T be a risk of bullying. Obviously we're still in the process of social change with true homosexual rights and true acceptance. Obviously you're never going to fully change the view of every person in the country, like we still have bigoted people who believe women shouldn't have the vote but one primary way of removing stereotypes and targeting is to force acceptance and basically say "like it or lump it". Children aren't born with an instinct to discriminate against those with same-sex parents, it's picked up from their family and wider society. The negative attitude to same-sex relationships wont change until they're viewed as equals, firstly in government and then in a knock-on effect to society. Obviously the government can't turn round one day and say "Ok from now on same-sex couples are exactly like heterosexual couples with the same marriage rights blahblahbalh" but adoption is truely the next logical step towards equality, which is the wider argument.



Also there is no evidence of a same-sex couple being unable to raise children "properly" as I'm sure that's been bought up. About half the people my age I know are from single parent families and some of them have no contact with their other parent. They only have one gender as a "role model" but personally I cannot see how this has effected them negatively, and having two loving parents, no matter what sex, has so many benefits over having a single parent both financially and emotionally.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Obviously we're still in the process of social change with true homosexual rights and true acceptance.

What rights are homosexuals missing? if anything they [homosexuals] now have more rights than anybody else with the fact that I could now get a police visit/be taken to court if I say anything to offend a homosexual - but if somebody offends me concerning anything like fashion, my hair, my nose - anything, then I can't take them to court. The following quote is on the concept of 'rights' and liberty, and makes the point that rights and liberties come as individuals and not as members of groups - apply the quote to homosexuality concerning 'gay rights'.

“Racism is simply an ugly form of collectivism, the mindset that views humans strictly as members of groups rather than individuals . . . By encouraging Americans to adopt a group mentality, the advocates of so-called “diversity” actually perpetuate racism. Their obsession with racial group identity is inherently racists . . . we should understand that racism will endure until we stop thinking in terms of groups and begin thinking in terms of individual liberty.” - Ron Paul

Obviously you're never going to fully change the view of every person in the country, like we still have bigoted people who believe women shouldn't have the vote but one primary way of removing stereotypes and targeting is to force acceptance and basically say "like it or lump it".

Really, is it? I thought the best way to change minds was to debate and prove the other side wrong as opposed to destroying our civil liberties such as freedom of speech and freedom of expression in the name of 'equality' along with avoiding having a powerful state which decided what the public thinks which is what you seem to be suggesting.

Its interesting to note that even in liberal U.S. states, gay marriage has been knocked back whenever the public vote on it.

[Skittle]

Everyone is equal in the human race. It is right if homosexual's can adopt kids because their's nothing wrong with them their just ordianry people liek everyone else. Same goes to any other Sexualality

[Tom]

So would you support a, to quote, 'loving' incest couple adopting? or how about polygamy relationship in which all those in the relationship 'love one another'? surely there's no problem as they all love one another, but for some reason I suspect your reply will be no because you simply wouldn't be comfortable with those two relationships adopting and wouldn't find it in the best interests of the child to be adopted by a couple comprised of a grandmother and a daughter for example or a man with 10 lovers.

In fact, my answer to this would be 'Yes'. Everyone deserves something they want. Even if it is adoption. Unless there's something whereby they can't one for obvious reasons such as mental health. You can't help who you are, you can't help being gay, bi, straight, transvestite etc. It's just the way you were born. I could argue this all day I've said pretty much everything, I'm just repeating everything over and over when people ask questions.

[-:Undertaker:-]

In fact, my answer to this would be 'Yes'. Everyone deserves something they want. Even if it is adoption. Unless there's something whereby they can't one for obvious reasons such as mental health. You can't help who you are, you can't help being gay, bi, straight, transvestite etc. It's just the way you were born. I could argue this all day I've said pretty much everything, I'm just repeating everything over and over when people ask questions.

Our disagreement is clear then, that you think a man with numerous 'lovers', an incest couple or a gay couple adopting is a good enviroment for a child to grow up in, I do not and still retain that the traditional family cannot be replaced as shown by children on estates around the country who have broken homes with a father figure and a mother figure.

[Tom]

Our disagreement is clear then, that you think a man with numerous 'lovers', an incest couple or a gay couple adopting is a good enviroment for a child to grow up in, I do not and still retain that the traditional family cannot be replaced as shown by children on estates around the country who have broken homes with a father figure and a mother figure.

That's like saying if the childs real mother had numerous 'lovers', that is a good place for a child to grow up. You're missing the point.

[The Don]

In fact, my answer to this would be 'Yes'. Everyone deserves something they want. Even if it is adoption. Unless there's something whereby they can't one for obvious reasons such as mental health. You can't help who you are, you can't help being gay, bi, straight, transvestite etc. It's just the way you were born. I could argue this all day I've said pretty much everything, I'm just repeating everything over and over when people ask questions.

So you think incest couples should be able to adopt? I'm pretty sure that a household with those morals wouldn't be suitable in raising a child. I'm one for equal rights, but when those equal rights violate the rights of an innocent child, that's where it needs to be stopped.