EU Referendum Megathread (Brexit)

[abc]

You've really lost the plot when you bring the movement of the GBP into it lmao, currencies move all the time. It's called speculative trading.

This shows how little you know. Do you not understand the affects of a weak pound? Clearly you do not or you would not be making such stupid comments.

[-:Undertaker:-]

This shows how little you know. Do you not understand the affects of a weak pound? Clearly you do not or you would not be making such stupid comments.

I am not disputing the effects of a weaker pound, I am saying that a rise or fall in a currency is often due to speculative trading not the actual events taking place. It is very often the case that markets will "fall" (meaning people sell) before a General Election because of 'uncertainty' yet you surely don't call for an end to elections do you?

In any case if you really want to discuss the strength of the GBP, we can: after all the Bank of England has spent since 2008 trying to get the Pound Sterling to fall as it helps boots exports. In relation to our trade with Europe (which again isn't really relevant to this debate as that will continue regardless) the weakness of the GBP actually helps boost our exports to Europe and the world as we're having to import less and producing more here on these islands. That's a good thing.

Now, back to the EU and Britain's potential once we've left and the risks of remaining inside it.

[abc]

I am not disputing the effects of a weaker pound, I am saying that a rise or fall in a currency is often due to speculative trading not the actual events taking place. It is very often the case that markets will "fall" (meaning people sell) before a General Election because of 'uncertainty' yet you surely don't call for an end to elections do you?

In any case if you really want to discuss the strength of the GBP, we can: after all the Bank of England has spent since 2008 trying to get the Pound Sterling to fall as it helps boots exports. In relation to our trade with Europe (which again isn't really relevant to this debate as that will continue regardless) the weakness of the GBP actually helps boost our exports to Europe and the world as we're having to import less and producing more here on these islands. That's a good thing.

Now, back to the EU and Britain's potential once we've left and the risks of remaining inside it.

Yet after an EU exit the market will still be volatile, full of uncertainty and pound will continue to fall. It will hurt our imports and will lead to price increases. You forget these affects of an exit. Well done.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yet after an EU exit the market will still be volatile, full of uncertainty and pound will continue to fall. It will hurt our imports and will lead to price increases. You forget these affects of an exit. Well done.

I'm sorry but you saying that markets will become volatile following an exit simply isn't grounded in any fact. Where is this evidence and by what mechanism? If an EU exit meant Britain being instantly locked out of world trade then you might have a leg to stand on... but it doesn't mean that.

I make claims on what is likely to happen if we remain in the European Union and I can point to cold hard facts such as the Five Presidents Report on the new Treaty, the lack of legality in the treaties of the supposed reform Cameron secured which would be struck down by the ECJ, QMV & the push for an EU army and the Eurozone outvoting us in the future as it integrates closer together (links on request). Those are all facts and real possibilities which I can point to and claim there is a real risk there to British national interest in remaining within the EU - as well as the existing and provable handicaps of EU membership.

You on the other hand are simply casting assertions out there forecasting possible events that aren't even connected to this process.

You forget these affects of an exit.

How can you assert such a thing?

In the event of a Leave vote we won't even be activating any new agreements until two years after the vote has taken place due to the provisions of Article 50 of the Lisbon Treaty. In other words, for up to two years following we shall have exactly the same agreements in place as we do now whilst alternative agreements are made both with the European Union and non-EU countries. Yet you forecast disaster the day after we vote to leave? It doesn't add up.

The Euro for example has plunged against the US Dollar since mid-2014... I could make claims about the EU on that. But it isn't related so I do not.

[The Don]

This shows how little you know. Do you not understand the affects of a weak pound? Clearly you do not or you would not be making such stupid comments.

It's funny how Dan writes off every business/political/influential individual/organisation in favour of the UK remaining in the EU by calling them shills/idiots yet everyone that's in favour of leaving is credible and the only voice we should listen to. It really highlights the mental gymnastics Dan's performing (along with the other fanatics on the pro-brexit side, and no, i'm not calling everyone on the pro-brexit side a fanatic). It's shown even clearer when Dan can't even admit to there being a single benefit of being in the EU. Black in white thinking at its finest. Even though i'm pro-eu I can acknowledge the fact that there are solid arguments for leaving and staying in the EU.

[-:Undertaker:-]

@The Don;

What do we get in the EU that we can't get outside of it?

You've both been free to argue for them but so far we've had nothing but threats repeated whereas I am making a positive case for leaving.

The EU I will remind you is a political project, not an economic one. I asked earlier of @abc; for example to provide what remaining in the EU and having "influence" (that widely repeated claim) had actually achieved in 42 years yet I was disappointed but not surprised that no answer came because there isn't one. It has gone down a path we the public do not want. In the past people such as yourself have argued for staying in and arguing for 'reform' yet the 'renegotiation' shows this to be impossible. It is clear we are not getting reform and it is heading in a direction unacceptable for us, why would we choose to stay... unless for a federal Europe?

[The Don]

@The Don;

What do we get in the EU that we can't get outside of it?

You've both been free to argue for them but so far we've had nothing but threats repeated whereas I am making a positive case for leaving.

The EU I will remind you is a political project, not an economic one. I asked earlier of @abc; for example to provide what remaining in the EU and having "influence" (that widely repeated claim) had actually achieved in 42 years yet I was disappointed but not surprised that no answer came because there isn't one. It has gone down a path we the public do not want. In the past people such as yourself have argued for staying in and arguing for 'reform' yet the 'renegotiation' shows this to be impossible. It is clear we are not getting reform and it is heading in a direction unacceptable for us, why would we choose to stay... unless for a federal Europe?

Here's a copypasta:

"What did the EU ever do for us?
Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future."

[abc]

@The Don;

What do we get in the EU that we can't get outside of it?

You've both been free to argue for them but so far we've had nothing but threats repeated whereas I am making a positive case for leaving.

The EU I will remind you is a political project, not an economic one. I asked earlier of @abc; for example to provide what remaining in the EU and having "influence" (that widely repeated claim) had actually achieved in 42 years yet I was disappointed but not surprised that no answer came because there isn't one. It has gone down a path we the public do not want. In the past people such as yourself have argued for staying in and arguing for 'reform' yet the 'renegotiation' shows this to be impossible. It is clear we are not getting reform and it is heading in a direction unacceptable for us, why would we choose to stay... unless for a federal Europe?

Further to what Akeam just said above, staying in the EU will strengthen the Pound. Leaving will lead to a decade of uncertainty and therefore a weaker pound and quite frankly that will be damaging to many businesses. Before you say I am speculating - well everything the Brexit team says is speculation so shove it.

[dbgtz]

I'm pretty sure the strength of the pound is pretty much irrelevant to the goings on in the EU. The weakening the pound has seen recently is unrelated as far as I'm aware and I don't see how being in or out of the EU changes this. Please do correct me if I'm wrong though.

Here's a copypasta:

"What did the EU ever do for us?
Not much, apart from: providing 57% of our trade;
structural funding to areas hit by industrial decline;
clean beaches and rivers;
cleaner air;
lead free petrol;
restrictions on landfill dumping;
a recycling culture;
cheaper mobile charges;
cheaper air travel;
improved consumer protection and food labelling;
a ban on growth hormones and other harmful food additives;
better product safety;
single market competition bringing quality improvements and better industrial performance;
break up of monopolies;
Europe-wide patent and copyright protection;
no paperwork or customs for exports throughout the single market;
price transparency and removal of commission on currency exchanges across the eurozone;
freedom to travel, live and work across Europe;
funded opportunities for young people to undertake study or work placements abroad;
access to European health services;
labour protection and enhanced social welfare;
smoke-free workplaces;
equal pay legislation;
holiday entitlement;
the right not to work more than a 48-hour week without overtime;
strongest wildlife protection in the world;
improved animal welfare in food production;
EU-funded research and industrial collaboration;
EU representation in international forums;
bloc EEA negotiation at the WTO;
EU diplomatic efforts to uphold the nuclear non-proliferation treaty;
European arrest warrant;
cross border policing to combat human trafficking, arms and drug smuggling; counter terrorism intelligence;
European civil and military co-operation in post-conflict zones in Europe and Africa;
support for democracy and human rights across Europe and beyond;
investment across Europe contributing to better living standards and educational, social and cultural capital.
All of this is nothing compared with its greatest achievements: the EU has for 60 years been the foundation of peace between European neighbours after centuries of bloodshed.
It furthermore assisted the extraordinary political, social and economic transformation of 13 former dictatorships, now EU members, since 1980.
We in the UK should reflect on whether our net contribution of £7bn out of total government expenditure of £695bn is good value. We must play a full part in enabling the union to be a force for good in a multi-polar global future."

Some are benefits, some could be done/were done without the EU and some people would be against.

[abc]

I'm pretty sure the strength of the pound is pretty much irrelevant to the goings on in the EU. The weakening the pound has seen recently is unrelated as far as I'm aware and I don't see how being in or out of the EU changes this. Please do correct me if I'm wrong though.



Some are benefits, some could be done/were done without the EU and some people would be against.

Pound began falling quite significantly from the day the referendum was announced. The referendum creates uncertainty and that weakens the currency. So yes, the EU and the referendum is directly related to the current strength of the pound.