oli / matt / agm team

[nvrspk4]

Responding to what I see as the main points of the thread...

As far as openness, discussions regarding forum policies and other things are often discussed with users, but there are certain things that are never discussed with members. Actually two things: discipline and staffing. Disciplining of members (infractions, cautions, bans) and staffing (warnings, demotions, firings, promotions) are the only things that aren't discussed with the public, for very obvious reasons. We try to maintain a level of professionalism and airing everyone's dirty laundry will devolve the conversation into namecalling and borderline slander.

When you hear about a complain about Habbox being "secretive" or "not open" with its members, it's almost always about staffing decisions, or about disciplinary decisions. That's because Habbox is NOT open about those things, has made that clear, and has solid reasons. I think that the fact that complaints about "openness" really only come to light when there are staffing/disciplinary issues highlights how well Habbox has done on being open on nearly all other issues. Certainly there are glitches but General Management teams have, with very few exceptions, been constantly improving on the openness of content and community based changes to Habbox.

Regarding the "shoot first ask questions later", ideas by General Management are usually born out of what the users want. Certainly from time to time we come up with big things that our users never started (Habbo Knowledge Guide, HxSS, special events, some new features) but the majority of the management's time is spent doing things that will make the user experience better. The easiest way to do that is to respond to issues the users have. If someone expresses a problem and a solution, the management might not feel that the solution is a good idea. But perhaps a few weeks later, management comes up with an idea to solve the problem differently, and they will implement it. They'll kick it around a bit and if it seems to work, they'll run with it. So usually most decisions are in some way responsive to user input.

Also, on the current issue. Habbox is changing and experiencing some different times. In the past GMs and AGMs have mostly been promoted from department manager. In this case there was a special need for a certain staff member and for a variety of reasons that I'm sure General Management considered carefully but doesn't want to make public, Oli was the viable choice. I'm sure the same thing was true with Bolt. We're going through strange times with Habbox but I'm sure they're making every effort to elevate the current managers, but certain circumstances probably made the decision they made the best possible decision given the situation.

Why aren't they telling us the circumstances so that we can then say, oh yeah, that makes sense? Because there would probably be an ensuing debate about whether manager x or manager y could have fit the criteria and then there will be hurt feelings among the brilliant management team which the General Management obviously values and doesn't want to hurt. Making public the reasons why the other potential candidates weren't chosen, or why the current candidate was chosen, though promoting openness, would sow discontent and some bad feeling among potential candidates and the management team in general.

[Pyroka]

I love threads like these. In the old days, it'd pretty much be whoever was the longest serving member of staff would get the position, which is why they wouldn't leave. This was always the case and everyone knew it, the longest-working people would get the position based on their long loyalty to Habbox. If you left, you wouldn't get another position at Habbox.

Now it's if you leave, you'll be more likely to get a promotion than when you were currently Management. People have proven that in this thread, so it's hard to deny the fact that the rules on recruiting Management changed. Now I'm not placing the blame on anyone, I Just think It's a bit weird that this is the case Now whereas it wouldn't have been a good year or two ago.

I'm not going to deny that the members of management that got promoted deserved their position, but I do think others deserve it internally as to asking people who left Habbox to come back. I'd be well miffed if I were a Manager here, waiting for a promotion for hard work & then being told someone who left has trumped me for the position. I'm sure the Managers below AGM were annoyed at the time, but this is Habbox where everything is "professional" so we wouldn't ever know that for certain (unless you know them personally, in which case you probably do).

Anyway, just my two cents.

[Catzsy]

I love threads like these. In the old days, it'd pretty much be whoever was the longest serving member of staff would get the position, which is why they wouldn't leave. This was always the case and everyone knew it, the longest-working people would get the position based on their long loyalty to Habbox. If you left, you wouldn't get another position at Habbox.

Now it's if you leave, you'll be more likely to get a promotion than when you were currently Management. People have proven that in this thread, so it's hard to deny the fact that the rules on recruiting Management changed. Now I'm not placing the blame on anyone, I Just think It's a bit weird that this is the case Now whereas it wouldn't have been a good year or two ago.

I'm not going to deny that the members of management that got promoted deserved their position, but I do think others deserve it internally as to asking people who left Habbox to come back. I'd be well miffed if I were a Manager here, waiting for a promotion for hard work & then being told someone who left has trumped me for the position. I'm sure the Managers below AGM were annoyed at the time, but this is Habbox where everything is "professional" so we wouldn't ever know that for certain (unless you know them personally, in which case you probably do).

Anyway, just my two cents.

My memory of the history of Habbox is not quite the same as yours. I can remember 'rapid' promotions back in the days with long serving staff waiting even longer. If a valuable, long serving member of staff has to resign due to personal reasons why shouldn't they be brought back if they are willing. I remember Seacat leaving and being brought back under similar circumstances and that was back in 2006/2007. Jrh has returned under similar circumstances. If somebody has the qualities, attributes and experience and is basically the best person for the post it would be a bit of a travesty not to appoint them. It was not envisaged that Roxy would resign and tbh I do not think there would be one member of staff who would not say that Martin is not perfectly suited to the role. I would say if Habbox brought in new people from other sites straight into management this discussion would be valid.

[Pyroka]

[B]

My memory of the history of Habbox is not quite the same as yours. I can remember 'rapid' promotions back in the days with long serving staff waiting even longer. If a valuable, long serving member of staff has to resign due to personal reasons why shouldn't they be brought back if they are willing. I remember Seacat leaving and being brought back under similar circumstances and that was back in 2006/2007. Jrh has returned under similar circumstances. If somebody has the qualities, attributes and experience and is basically the best person for the post it would be a bit of a travesty not to appoint them. It was not envisaged that Roxy would resign and tbh I do not think there would be one member of staff who would not say that Martin is not perfectly suited to the role. I would say if Habbox brought in new people from other sites straight into management this discussion would be valid.

I don't remember Jrh being brought back tbh, you've probably got a longer experience on HxF than I do. But as I said though, I wasn't saying that who they bring back aren't good for the job, I just simply think that other people should be given a chance instead. And Habbox would never bring people into Management from other sites, even if that site was called Habbo.com (yes they wouldn't even recruit Sulake staff lol), never gonna even consider that possibility as it's one of those sites where you have to work your way up to the top... However, from what I see it's work your way almost to the top, quit, and get higher which is a bit confusing lol.

By the way, I'm going off on a tangent a bit here but what job did Jamesy have before being a Forum/Site Technician (technician of some sort anyway)? Because I don't recall him having one... I guess you could say that's me going off on a tangent, but it kinda relates to what I'm saying here. I mean, I could suggest FlyingJesus to be a member of Management and I bet he'd be excellent for it but obv because he doesn't get along with certain people, he'd never get that job. I think you can see what I'm getting at here, and I bet a lot of users reading this post already knew from when they just started reading page 1 of this thread. Actually, informed users probably didn't even need to see this thread.

I say users, because that also comes under Staff. Oh the heretics with their opinions lol.

[Samantha]

I don't remember Jrh being brought back tbh, you've probably got a longer experience on HxF than I do. But as I said though, I wasn't saying that who they bring back aren't good for the job, I just simply think that other people should be given a chance instead. And Habbox would never bring people into Management from other sites, even if that site was called Habbo.com (yes they wouldn't even recruit Sulake staff lol), never gonna even consider that possibility as it's one of those sites where you have to work your way up to the top... However, from what I see it's work your way almost to the top, quit, and get higher which is a bit confusing lol.

By the way, I'm going off on a tangent a bit here but what job did Jamesy have before being a Forum/Site Technician (technician of some sort anyway)? Because I don't recall him having one... I guess you could say that's me going off on a tangent, but it kinda relates to what I'm saying here. I mean, I could suggest FlyingJesus to be a member of Management and I bet he'd be excellent for it but obv because he doesn't get along with certain people, he'd never get that job. I think you can see what I'm getting at here, and I bet a lot of users reading this post already knew from when they just started reading page 1 of this thread. Actually, informed users probably didn't even need to see this thread.

I say users, because that also comes under Staff. Oh the heretics with their opinions lol.

Some of them do 'seem' correct imo, however in some cases there are some people who actually deserve their position, however, that's mostly in the dept. managers.

On the other hand you have a lot more experiecene than me, and I can only talk about so much, so what happened 3/4 years ago doesn't really ring a bell to me.

If the management rules have changed, then it may have been good being informed .

Also I agree at you saying some of the regular forum members could do a great job as management (not me) but some of the people who actually appear 'rebelish' and also don't get on with some staff could actually be a help to the site.

[Catzsy]

I don't remember Jrh being brought back tbh, you've probably got a longer experience on HxF than I do. But as I said though, I wasn't saying that who they bring back aren't good for the job, I just simply think that other people should be given a chance instead. And Habbox would never bring people into Management from other sites, even if that site was called Habbo.com (yes they wouldn't even recruit Sulake staff lol), never gonna even consider that possibility as it's one of those sites where you have to work your way up to the top... However, from what I see it's work your way almost to the top, quit, and get higher which is a bit confusing lol.

By the way, I'm going off on a tangent a bit here but what job did Jamesy have before being a Forum/Site Technician (technician of some sort anyway)? Because I don't recall him having one... I guess you could say that's me going off on a tangent, but it kinda relates to what I'm saying here. I mean, I could suggest FlyingJesus to be a member of Management and I bet he'd be excellent for it but obv because he doesn't get along with certain people, he'd never get that job. I think you can see what I'm getting at here, and I bet a lot of users reading this post already knew from when they just started reading page 1 of this thread. Actually, informed users probably didn't even need to see this thread.

I say users, because that also comes under Staff. Oh the heretics with their opinions lol.

Jamesy was a Mod and then an Smod for quite a long time Well if FJ wants a job I am sure he will apply although I am sure he was a Manager once. There was a time when I would not have been able to get a job here but there we are these things happen. I do not really think that as long as someone is suitable for a job then they should not work their way up as Martin certainly did. He was the New Manager for an awful long time.

[Pyroka]

Some of them do 'seem' correct imo, however in some cases there are some people who actually deserve their position, however, that's mostly in the dept. managers.

On the other hand you have a lot more experiecene than me, and I can only talk about so much, so what happened 3/4 years ago doesn't really ring a bell to me.

If the management rules have changed, then it may have been good being informed .

Also I agree at you saying some of the regular forum members could do a great job as management (not me) but some of the people who actually appear 'rebelish' and also don't get on with some staff could actually be a help to the site.

People seem to have a short memory of when Hecktix was a forum rebel and was permenantly banned. However becoming friends with the right people not only escalates you to Forum Manager after being banned from the said forum, but also when you leave you're treated at such a high manner that you're asked back for a higher role than what you previously were. I'm not picking on Oli specifically, but he is and always will be the one example for that argument.

And regarding Management rules being changed, I wouldn't hold your breath because there never was any written rules, simply unwritten rules that seem to be twisted whenever it suits them.

Jamesy was a Mod and then an Smod for quite a long time Well if FJ wants a job I am sure he will apply although I am sure he was a Manager once. There was a time when I would not have been able to get a job here but there we are these things happen. I do not really think that as long as someone is suitable for a job then they should not work their way up as Martin certainly did. He was the New Manager for an awful long time.

Ah I couldn't remember that at all! Can't even remember him becoming FM tbh! And like, FlyingJesus, as well as the likes of Neversoft & GommeInc have contributed tons to Habbox yet they've never ever been considered for a position in management, though FlyingJesus did because... well, I dunno why he was to be honest but judging by the amount of support the Habbox Council got, which he was the manager of(?), he wasn't that highly considered. Martin was News Manager for an awful long time yeah, but when it comes to it why would someone leave? I mean, would it be due to personal reasons? Or that they have no time on there hands to do so? So why would they leave in the first place and later come back as a higher position, literally like a week or two after they like. I don't get that at all, I remember that somebody resigned from HxHD (possibly Shar?) and they had to build their way back to the top, yet in any other department this is not the case, no in fact, if you leave then you end up getting a higher position than what you had, or equally returning to the position you once had. Double standards? I think so.

One other person I'd like to give an honorable mention to is Immenseman. He contributed so much to Habbox, yet when management were given the chance they fully shut him out and cast him out as some sort of criminal. Now I know the reasons for why he was cast out as a criminal, but do you think he would've done that if he was treated with some respect like most ex-management are? Do you think he would've ever been asked back to be AGM (Community), considering in my opinion, he has more experience than Roxy and Martin have put together?

Bluntly put, no. He's not friends with the right people, and General Management have a grudge against him. Thats what it boils down to nowadays, if you're not friends with them, you can forget about it.

[Catzsy]

People seem to have a short memory of when Hecktix was a forum rebel and was permenantly banned. However becoming friends with the right people not only escalates you to Forum Manager after being banned from the said forum, but also when you leave you're treated at such a high manner that you're asked back for a higher role than what you previously were. I'm not picking on Oli specifically, but he is and always will be the one example for that argument.

And regarding Management rules being changed, I wouldn't hold your breath because there never was any written rules, simply unwritten rules that seem to be twisted whenever it suits them.

I have to say this is extremely unfair and not at all the truth - it is pure subjecture.
I am sure Oli won't mind me mentioning this but when he came back after being banned and applied to be a mod and was accepted I thought management had lost their marbles BUT how very wrong I was. He worked extremely hard in that role and deserved his promotion to Smod. Since then he has dedicated a lot of his time to positively contribute to Habbox in all senses of the word and has done a remarkable job of it. I am not going into the reason he was perm banned before but you have to consider who banned him and the fact that people do learn from their mistakes and mature as individuals.

[Pyroka]

I have to say this is extremely unfair and not at all the truth - it is pure subjecture.
I am sure Oli won't mind me mentioning this but when he came back after being banned and applied to be a mod and was accepted I thought management had lost their marbles BUT how very wrong I was. He worked extremely hard in that role and deserved his promotion to Smod. Since then he has dedicated a lot of his time to positively contribute to Habbox in all senses of the word and has done a remarkable job of it. I am not going into the reason he was perm banned before but you have to consider who banned him and the fact that people do learn from their mistakes and mature as individuals.

I have to say also that your post is an extremely biased point of view. Oli was a total rebel, and in anyone elses position they would not have ever been considered for a Moderator. That is like saying Minstrels (Matty) who has been banned so many times, applied for a Moderator & then went onto be a Forum Manager. He would never be given a Moderator role after being banned, and I'm pretty sure Matt hasn't even been perm banned (though I don't come on here much now so maybe you dealt that harsh blow a while ago lol). I mean you look at the list of requirements for applying for Moderator, Oli did not fit that role, he never would've fit that role in a million years due to his past & yet Habbox Management put it aside for him. Special treatment at best. I'm not denying Oli has done a good job, but there was simply no way he should've ever been given a Moderator job & further on from that.

[Catzsy]

I have to say also that your post is an extremely biased point of view. Oli was a total rebel, and in anyone elses position they would not have ever been considered for a Moderator. That is like saying Minstrels (Matty) who has been banned so many times, applied for a Moderator & then went onto be a Forum Manager. He would never be given a Moderator role after being banned, and I'm pretty sure Matt hasn't even been perm banned (though I don't come on here much now so maybe you dealt that harsh blow a while ago lol). I mean you look at the list of requirements for applying for Moderator, Oli did not fit that role, he never would've fit that role in a million years due to his past & yet Habbox Management put it aside for him. Special treatment at best. I'm not denying Oli has done a good job, but there was simply no way he should've ever been given a Moderator job & further on from that.

How am I biased? I was not an Oli fan then (sorry Oli). I think I know a lot more than you about the work Oli has done for Habbox having worked as an Smod when he was a new mod and and as an Smod with him so I am able to comment supporting it. He came back to the forum, didn't break the rules and was an active and postive member and proved himself before being offered a mod post. This is something that any member even if they have been the worst rebel around can do if they want to and maybe the forum would be a better place for it.