Plan to bring UK clocks forward

[-:Undertaker:-]

Can we finally put that one to bed now I've proved I'm right?

And GMT is right inbetween, what would be the sense in jumping to the right (Berlin) when we are closer (and yes the UK is directly above) Portugal. If anybody should be changing it should be Spain. When you look at maps such as the one below which shows Central European Time (Berlin Time) it looks as though the UK is out of step and should also belong to CET;



In reality (as the map you posted shows) the United Kingdom is above Portugal. (and yes, done the string along with the built-in ruler on globe)



Both within same lines when you look at globe split based on curves.

It also did not fail in the UK last time, there was no outcome either way with the Pros & Cons and it was ended there with no conclusion. As for Portugal, it doesn't matter what they find. The country isn't aligned under us, nor is the country anywhere near as tall as the UK in length so it does not face the same issues as us, we are much further north.

It did fail because we reverted back, otherwise we wouldn't have reverted back. There are many comments you can find from people who remember that time who did not like it, with very dark mornings and very bright evenings well into the night - hence why we changed back. It is especially a nightmare for Scotland being up north which you yourself mention in how tall the United Kingdom is.

The daylight is simply not beneficial in the morning, in the evening it can be utilised so much better by playing sport perhaps and people/tourists can stay out longer for instance, therefore boosting the economy. And there was also the stock market argument you dismissed.

The stock market does not represent the real market, the stock market I assume jumped when Tony Blair was elected just as it was when David Cameron was elected despite the fact it only means more regulation and more taxation. The stock market just reflects good mood, so good mood that we are entering summer. It is not representative of the real market.

And I say again, this has nothing to do with the economy (along with the negatives which I posted earlier of lighter evenings and darker mornings because business in the morning for example will be losing more, meaning no difference in the status quo) - so from a government which hasn't helped business in the slightest and only made things worse for them, you expect me to believe this will boost the economy?

[Jordy]

And GMT is right inbetween, what would be the sense in jumping to the right (Berlin) when we are closer (and yes the UK is directly above) Portugal. If anybody should be changing it should be Spain. When you look at maps such as the one below which shows Central European Time (Berlin Time) it looks as though the UK is out of step and should also belong to CET;



In reality (as the map you posted shows) the United Kingdom is above Portugal. (and yes, done the string along with the built-in ruler on globe)



It did fail because we reverted back, otherwise we wouldn't have reverted back. There are many comments you can find from people who remember that time who did not like it, with very dark mornings and very bright evenings well into the night - hence why we changed back. It is especially a nightmare for Scotland being up north which you yourself mention in how tall the United Kingdom is.



The stock market does not represent the real market, the stock market I assume jumped when Tony Blair was elected just as it was when David Cameron was elected despite the fact it only means more regulation and more taxation. The stock market just reflects good mood, so good mood that we are entering summer. It is not representative of the real market.

And I say again, this has nothing to do with the economy (along with the negatives which I posted earlier of lighter evenings and darker mornings because business in the morning for example will be losing more, meaning no difference in the status quo) - so from a government which hasn't helped business in the slightest and only made things worse for them, you expect me to believe this will boost the economy?

I have continued to prove to the forum how we are not over Portugal but infact France and Spain. You don't have any legs to stand on, it is not up for debate as my maps show it. I would say prove me wrong but you simply cant :p

It did not revert back because it failed, it reverted back because it was an experiment with no conclusion either way. Other countries simply do not matter on the issue, there's no need to bang on about Berlin, merely what's best for the UK.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have continued to prove to the forum how we are not over Portugal but infact France and Spain. You don't have any legs to stand on, it is not up for debate as my maps show it. I would say prove me wrong but you simply cant :p

No hang on, when you say 'we' are above France/Spain - I suspect now you are only including the mainland of England. I am talking about the United Kingdom, and Northern Ireland fits above Portugal (just). If anything, it is Spain which should match the times of Portugal and the United Kingdom not the other way around. But they do not - because they are fine with their given time, just as Portugal and the United Kingdom are fine with their times.

It did not revert back because it failed, it reverted back because it was an experiment with no conclusion either way. Other countries simply do not matter on the issue, there's no need to bang on about Berlin, merely what's best for the UK.

So again, nothing has changed in circumstances so why would changing the times make any difference now than it did when Portugal changed in the 1960s(?), we changed in the 1970s and they changed again in the 1990s - why would it work now but not back then?

This is not best for the UK as past trials have proven and as we know what will happen with Scotland which will be plunged into darkness, furthermore London is not in or near Berlin just as Berlin is not near Kiev or Moscow. We have WET because we are in the west of Europe, Berlin has CET because it is in the centre of Europe and Kiev has EET because it is to the east. Now unless these countries suddenly swap places geographically, where is the logic in changing times? (which has already been attempted before and failed).

[Moh]

The times are fine as they are. Everything to do with time in the UK revolves around GMT/BST. Not just every day life, but also armed defense etc..

Then you have technology that would have to recognise the timezone, such as using GPS etc..

So changing it, just so we can be the same as the EU would only cause problems, not resolve them - not that we even have any problems with the time?

[X...]

The times are fine as they are. Everything to do with time in the UK revolves around GMT/BST. Not just every day life, but also armed defense etc..

Then you have technology that would have to recognise the timezone, such as using GPS etc..

So changing it, just so we can be the same as the EU would only cause problems, not resolve them - not that we even have any problems with the time?

Changing timezones really would not have that much of an effect, the first point in your post is invalid. If this was the case then the entire world would end twice a year. People change their clocks and go to bed, they wake up the next day and continue their life to the same schedule as before. Exactly the same would happen if the UK was brought into line with CET, the actual switch would probably happen at 2 in the morning like with the BST/UTC (Its not actually called GMT).

As for the second part your post, again the world does not end when the clocks go backwards/forwards so most things would not be effected by this (Although software might have to be updated, like Windows was a few years back due to the US government changing the dates DST came into effect, although it would be less of an issue as things could just be set to CET as it is an already existing timezone). And as you mention GPS specifically, it would not be effected at all. GPS does not care about timezones (for position anyway), it just requires an accurate time source.




As for the distance thing brought up by someone else previously in this thread, 600 or so miles is not very wide for a timezone. China is a single timezone for example (it's timezone is actually the widest spanning timezone).
You have to remember that we are only 30 miles from the edge of the CET timezone, it really would not make much of a difference to anyone.


I honestly think that some people dislike this idea purely because its a change. I really doubt most people would notice it, it would be no different to putting clocks forward/backwards. You would change every clock and go to bed and wake up at what ever time you had planned to (So if you had woken up at 6 UTC on the day before the change you would wake up at 6 CET the next day) and go about your day. After a few days no one would notice.
A one hour time difference really is not that much of a difference and takes no time at all to adjust to.

[Arron]

I remember hearing something on the news about this and they mentioned that they're doing it to reduce crime? I can't provide a source or a link.

[Conservative,]

Hate dark mornings - if we were in line with Europe then in winter we'd have really late sunrises (eg; about 8/9am) which means I'd be going to school in the dark and I don't like that idea.

[Slowpoke]

I'd much rather it be dark until 8am than it going dark at 3pm which it does in mid-winter.

[craig1709]

Surely that's going to be confusing, moving us ahead of GMT.

GMT - Greenwich Mean Time, and Greenwich is in England, so we're not going the timezone that's based around an area in our country

[GommeInc]

Can we finally put that one to bed now I've proved I'm right?

Not being fussy, but that is grossly out of proportion. Your lines are straight, not curved which they should be and the angle that has been taken looks as though it was photographed through a fish eye/convexed lens :/ Think of it like this, when one half of the planet is in complete darkness and the other isn't, you will never get a perfect straight line. Undertaker's image is more realistic. Take a look at the moon at night, it's the same principle It's all interesting to note that your picture suggests the sun comes from above or below the earth, never the sides

EDIT: Here are a few examples:

http://www.gearthblog.com/images/nightday.jpg
^ According to your diagram, the US should have a perfect line going down the middle, when in actual fact it's at an angle (the earth afterall doesn't "stand" on the south pole, with the north pole at the top, it's actually at a slight angle and the sun catches it at a slight angle, thus the space photographs).

http://apod.nasa.gov/apod/ap030324.html
^ This is the link Undertaker got his photograph from, interesting it is Copyrighted to NASA, so I assume it's accurate