Monarchy or Republic

[Bun]

To defend British interests for the meantime, then they can build on leaving the European Union. The decision was taken many years ago by UKIP to involve itself rather than distance itself from the issue. It isn't hypocritical, they are fighting for us in that parliament, better than the other three are doing, mainly the Liberal Democrats and Labour.

sorry i am confused. are they fighting for "us" as a country as a whole in a place they don't believe should exist? or are they fighting for "us" in trying to get us out of the eu?

[UKIP]

sorry i am confused. are they fighting for "us" as a country as a whole in a place they don't believe should exist? or are they fighting for "us" in trying to get us out of the eu?

Your attempting to make a molehill out of a very simple matter.

UKIP are fighting in the European Parliament along with other anti-EU groups to defend the interests of sovereign nations against the EU. Once they have more MEP's it means more money and publicity, then they will start to target Westminister or even influence the Conservative Party once they have a majority in the European Parliament.

They believe we, the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland should exist, just not the European Union.

[alexxxxx]

That is one country, therefore they do wholely what benefits the United States of America, whereas the EU does whats best for the whole of the European Union, rather than the United Kingdom. You just said it yourself, if America can use suitable farming control then why can't we, that has completly destroyed the argument for farm and fisheries control from the EU, let alone also handing over sovereignty as well as billions and billions to a union people don't even want to be in. I watched a program in which many farmers stated that overnight from joining the pre-EU farms closed instantly as cheaper prices from EU imports brought the prices of apples, tomatoes crashing through the roof.

The USA began sort of like the EU. A union of independant states. They are more fractured than it seems. Different laws between states, some people even want their state to ceede from the USA (which they are all entitled to do so). Some people might argue that the Federal Government doesn't treat everyone/state equally.

If a car company wants to build a car company in Europe which they seldom seem to do now, they would mostly likely pick Germany due to it being the main industrial power in Europe, not because it is in a red-tape burocratic EU.

Change 'car company' to anyother sort of consumer or capital goods producer, it would still be the same. They would be (or could be) liable to pay import taxes when selling goods abroad), less jobs, less economic growth. That's a free market.

That is not free-trade, that is breaking so called EU-law which is a disgrace. I'm sorry but France has every right as a sovereign country to ban any imports it wishes even if I disagree with their decision.

Yes it is free-trade. Free-trade is where trade happens without government intervention. The EU makes sure that free trade exists between nations so everyone's economy can benefit.

It isn't a ridiculous statement, it is perfectly true. That is why voting figures for the three main parties is very low because people are fed up with them and if they vote for another party it is likely to make little difference.

Not in the european elections though!

Who said I needed an A Level in economics to know a simple common sense fact about business and socialism, you only have to look towards the Soviet Union, North Korea, Peoples Republic of China under Mao to see what socialism has done.

Socialism does not mean isolationism or communism. Spending money on something that helps everyone (or a minority). You could use your arguments on everything. Why should we fund road-building in parts of the country we don't go to, why should we fund transport in inner-city London. It's because the benefits outway the costs.

It may be a voluntary union, but its not democratic as it hasn't asked us the simple question of whether we want it to exist or not, and you have ignored the fact that the treaty has been turned down by three countries so far via referendum, and only because they had a referendum which reflects the publics opinion and not the political elites opinion.

Our democratically elected government who represent the people said 'yes.' To the union, we have said yes. It's everyone's fault, the voters' 'fault' that we're in the union.

The Liberal Democrats can bang on about the EU as much as they want, the party is socialism with a smile and its well known for it. It appears that the only argument for signing is now some 'pullout' clause, so i'd ask why do we need to sign up and sign away more sovereign powers for some pullout clause which the EU knows will most likely never be used.

There are other decent reasons. The UK actually has quite a few opt-outs in the EU.

Who dictates? - the European Commision and the European Parliament, its very simple. They can tell Westminister Parliament to pay a fine, or to implement more red tape/laws - that is dictation.

I'm glad they do. They stop our government from keeping DNA databases of people who have never commited a crime and other national databases. At least there's some people who can tell our government to give us the rights that we deserve.

You've previously said you are a Labour supporter in the past. Anyways, as I have said previously, you cannot justify the EU as at any time when it has been put to a public vote is has been turned down, that is why this time the only country which held a referendum was the country which legally had to hold a referendum over it - doesn't that just show what the EU is like, it cannot and refuses to take 'NO' for an answer.

I'm fairly sure I haven't. Labour haven't been an absolute disaster over the last 12 years, but some decisions were awful (billions wasted on iraq&afghanistan), stupid expenses claims etc. But they sorted out NI and they introduced the minimum wage and other things to help people.

But Labour are now disillusioned and people don't know what to think of them anymore. They've stepped too right-wing for many people.

Out of interest, what do you think of the pan-european party libertas? They're pro-EU but doesn't like the way it's heading (as far as i can see).

By the way, i'm tired of this debate now as i'll never get you to see things from my point of view. Agree to disagree aha.

[UKIP]

The USA began sort of like the EU. A union of independant states. They are more fractured than it seems. Different laws between states, some people even want their state to ceede from the USA (which they are all entitled to do so). Some people might argue that the Federal Government doesn't treat everyone/state equally.

Change 'car company' to anyother sort of consumer or capital goods producer, it would still be the same. They would be (or could be) liable to pay import taxes when selling goods abroad), less jobs, less economic growth. That's a free market.

Yes it is free-trade. Free-trade is where trade happens without government intervention. The EU makes sure that free trade exists between nations so everyone's economy can benefit.

Not in the european elections though!

Socialism does not mean isolationism or communism. Spending money on something that helps everyone (or a minority). You could use your arguments on everything. Why should we fund road-building in parts of the country we don't go to, why should we fund transport in inner-city London. It's because the benefits outway the costs.

Our democratically elected government who represent the people said 'yes.' To the union, we have said yes. It's everyone's fault, the voters' 'fault' that we're in the union.


There are other decent reasons. The UK actually has quite a few opt-outs in the EU.

I'm glad they do. They stop our government from keeping DNA databases of people who have never commited a crime and other national databases. At least there's some people who can tell our government to give us the rights that we deserve.

I'm fairly sure I haven't. Labour haven't been an absolute disaster over the last 12 years, but some decisions were awful (billions wasted on iraq&afghanistan), stupid expenses claims etc. But they sorted out NI and they introduced the minimum wage and other things to help people.

But Labour are now disillusioned and people don't know what to think of them anymore. They've stepped too right-wing for many people.

Out of interest, what do you think of the pan-european party libertas? They're pro-EU but doesn't like the way it's heading (as far as i can see).

By the way, i'm tired of this debate now as i'll never get you to see things from my point of view. Agree to disagree aha.

The United States were totally different, the majority of them states, if not all, wanted to join up and create the United States of America. We do not, theres no excuse for a European superstate.

The car company is an example, the EU does not play a factor in businesess settling in a country, infact it just means more red tape for them which could persuade them to not invest in Europe.

The EU makes sure the governments don't intervene and the EU the intervenes, so your just replacing your own elected government with a un elected, faceless and biased government.

Not for long, polls already show figures up for UKIP and the BNP which propose leaving the EU. Anti-EU parties are growing and will continue to grow until we, the country, get what we want.

I know what socialism is, it promotes so called 'workers unite' as in the 1970's and 1980's, which nearly destroyed this country, along with destroying North Korea, the Soviet Union and others. We do not want a repeat of it. You, back in the 1980's would of supported keeping the mines open, the failing public services nationalised? - you sound like Michael Foot, the man who wrote the Labour Party the biggest suicide manifesto in history.

Yes and well done to that, however i'd rather have a DNA database than have a foreign country, to quote, telling us not to do certain things. You say a democratically elected government signed up, yes indeed they did, however they signed up to an entirely different european alliance which certainly wasn't a EU superstate.

You say a democratically elected government signed up to the EU, well how about this; a democratically elected government wants to implement a database system. I don't support the database but there you go, the EU is blocking a democratically elected government. The ID card scheme is still going ahead anyway, so much for our EU saviour.

Northern Ireland was mostly sorted out under the Major government, yes the minimum wage was a good idea, however having a minimum wage when you have driven the country into debt and made terrible economic decisions is no good, because if you carry on down that path then there won't be any jobs for a minimum wage to be applied to.

Labour are no were near right-wing, true they won't re-nationalise industries because they know if they did there would be public outcry and would reverse the progress Margaret Thatcher made. However they have followed a socialist doctrine of throwing cash at useless causes, punishing the majority, soft on crime, run the country into debt, not save money for bad economic times, introduce a CCTV culture into this country (which some people who lived under the Soviet Union say Britain is now worse), also on taxes they have been very socialist, constantly raising taxes to absurd levels, and finally they have continued a unsustainable spending program, but it won't matter to them, because yet again, another Conservative government will have to come in and pick up the pieces.

I don't think thats good enough, I think we should withdraw completely and if I was elected to office, the first form I would sign would be a pullout form.