Terms and Conditions and copyright

[ValidUsername]

Hi,

I recently started contributing to the Habbox Wiki in the hope this would be beneficial to people. In doing so I stumbled upon the Terms and Conditions (which are practically the same for the Habbox forum). The first line raised my eyebrows.

The first line reads:

We can (WITHOUT ANY PRIOR NOTICE) edit, close/lock, move, duplicate or publish any of your posted content because as soon as it is posted, you are the author of the content, but it becomes property of HabboxWiki.

The logic in this line is lost on me. It seems to suggest that because Habbox owns something it can do whatever it wants with it. That makes no sense to me. Just because you own a car doesn't mean you can drive it. You need a licence, drive on the road, etc. Just because you own a book doesn't mean you may republish the book. There are rules. Similar to Wikipedia text I think text is copyrighted automatically under the Berne Convention.

So in my opinion the first line in the Terms and Conditions has no meaning whatsoever and can just as well be left out.

If the intend is to make people abandon their copyright (leave out the "because ..." part), I think this can not be done this way. As far as I know abandoning one's copyright can only be done by a very explicit statement by the copyright holder.

[lawrawrrr]

Hi there,

Thanks so much for contributing to our Wiki, we appreciate your help!

This line in our Terms which is on all of our sites is there to clearly define that Habbox has the right to change, delete, duplicate or lock any content contributed by people (for example either edits to a Wiki page, forum posts etc) as people do not own the 'property' e.g. text they created as it becomes our property once it is published to our website(s). In practice, a good example would be that someone couldn't write a Wiki page, then demand that we remove their content/edits because it's their work/property.

This is not analgous to copyright: we do not own the copyright to images posted to our website(s) by individuals just by virtue of the image being posted to our sites.

Hopefully that helps to explain the meaning of that line.

Laura

[ValidUsername]

This line in our Terms which is on all of our sites is there to clearly define that Habbox has the right to change, delete, duplicate or lock any content contributed by people (...) as people do not own the 'property' e.g. text they created as it becomes our property once it is published to our website(s).

Stated so generally Habbox doesn't have that right because of the copyright. It doesn't matter that Habbox owns it.

[lawrawrrr]

I’m not exactly sure what you mean, but it seems as though you’re saying we don’t have the right to modify content?

We absolutely do have the right to modify, lock, delete, publish and duplicate content due to that exact point in our Terms of Service which users agree to when registering for and using the site(s) in question.

Copyright is a completely different issue and we’re not claiming to hold any copyright as a Fansite besides our images, website designs & codebase (where specifically designed for Habbox and by Habbox staff).

[ValidUsername]

I’m not exactly sure what you mean, but it seems as though you’re saying we don’t have the right to modify content?

I am saying the wording is too general. Some actions violate copyright which you say you don't own or mean to take over.

We absolutely do have the right to modify, lock, delete, publish and duplicate content due to that exact point in our Terms of Service which users agree to when registering for and using the site(s) in question.

As explained in my first post, the line in the Terms doesn't mean anything. It's like saying a dog is a solid object made of iron. You can put that in your Terms, but what's the use?

And if you do mean to take over al rights (which you say you don't), it can not be done this way.

Copyright is a completely different issue and we’re not claiming to hold any copyright as a Fansite besides our images, website designs & codebase (where specifically designed for Habbox and by Habbox staff).

Thanks for confirming that.

[FlyingJesus]

It does mean something - it means that things people post on the Wiki are not necessarily going to stay that way forever, and that the decision on what stays or goes lies with Habbox. Without it someone could post a load of spam adverts and claim that we're not allowed to remove them because it's "their" page, or on the flipside (as Laura stated before) someone could write a load of very good pages and then claim we have to delete them all after posting.

[ValidUsername]

It does mean something - it means that things people post on the Wiki are not necessarily going to stay that way forever, and that the decision on what stays or goes lies with Habbox. Without it someone could post a load of spam adverts and claim that we're not allowed to remove them because it's "their" page, or on the flipside (as Laura stated before) someone could write a load of very good pages and then claim we have to delete them all after posting.

What you mean to say doesn't count. Only what it says counts.

[lawrawrrr]

It’s not really down to what anyone means or individual interpretation though - it specifically and explicitly says that Habbox has the right to edit, modify, duplicate, lock, delete content after someone publishes it to our site(s), because at the point of publication that content belongs to HabboxWiki - with the exception of images which normal copyright rules apply.

The reason we have that term (as both Tom and I have explained) is so people can’t demand we remove OR keep content at their discretion, and we can edit as appropriate and use it elsewhere as we please.

I’m not sure why you’re confused at it’s meaning and saying it’s our interpretation as it is very clear exactly what this term is for. We won’t be removing or editing it.

[FlyingJesus]

What part of the section doesn't say that? The words right there on the screen are that we can edit, close/lock, move, duplicate or publish any content posted on the Wiki; no-one writes in a paragraph of examples and reasoning to their ToS

[ValidUsername]

It’s not really down to what anyone means or individual interpretation though - it specifically and explicitly says that Habbox has the right to edit, modify, duplicate, lock, delete content after someone publishes it to our site(s), because at the point of publication that content belongs to HabboxWiki - with the exception of images which normal copyright rules apply.

Yes, it states that because Habbox has ownership rights, these rights include the right to edit, close/lock, move, duplicate or publish in any way you can think of. No reservations are made. This isn't true.

If you buy a book, just because you own it, doesn't mean you are allowed to edit and republish the book. Putting such a statement in some Terms doesn't do anything.

.. - with the exception of images which normal copyright rules apply.

This statement seems to imply you want the user to grant Habbox some rights protected by copyright. However the text doesn't say no such thing.

I’m not sure why you’re confused at it’s meaning and saying it’s our interpretation as it is very clear exactly what this term is for. We won’t be removing or editing it.

I simply wanted to make the suggestion that the line in the Terms doesn't mean anything. So my suggestion is to change it into something more meaningful. It's just a suggestion. Nothing more. I am not passionate about what you do with it.