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  1. #11
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    Whilst we are 'EU citizens' as well as British subjects, I am afraid that a bloke from Romania or Germany has as much right to enter this country and increasingly has the same rights to take from the British pot as you do: despite this being our country and not theirs. With increased EU integration, as is specified in the treaties, expect more and more policies such as welfare, social security, pensions, healthcare, education etc to also become an 'EU competence' over time and it'll continue and continue: with of course the wealthier western European countries picking up the huge bill as has always been the case.

    Unless we leave and join Switzerland, Norway, Russia and the Commonwealth (India, AZ, NZ, Africa, Canada etc) in the bigger world beyond Euroland.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance View Post
    I agree. But you can do the same in any other EU Country.

    Not saying it is right, but this is sensationalist ******** (expected by the Daily Mail), which is designed to make uneducated people angry thinking that £30m is worth anything on a government level.
    Why is it that whenever a story like this rightly comes to our attention, all you and others can shout about is the Daily Mail or that the amount in the grand scheme of the entire budget isn't actually much: as though that makes it right or morally acceptable despite our huge national debt.

    And your OH so intelligent because you read the 'I' on your Sixth Form lunch break. Oh la de da. :rolleyes:

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance View Post
    I agree, we could add it to our Foreign Aid budget.
    What, you HAVE to be kidding!? What planet are you on?

    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 07-01-2015 at 03:16 AM.



  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    Whilst we are 'EU citizens' as well as British subjects, I am afraid that a bloke from Romania or Germany has as much right to enter this country and increasingly has the same rights to take from the British pot as you do: despite this being our country and not theirs. With increased EU integration, as is specified in the treaties, expect more and more policies such as welfare, social security, pensions, healthcare, education etc to also become an 'EU competence' over time and it'll continue and continue: with of course the wealthier western European countries picking up the huge bill as has always been the case.

    Unless we leave and join Switzerland, Norway, Russia and the Commonwealth (India, AZ, NZ, Africa, Canada etc) in the bigger world beyond Euroland.
    But lest we forget that they put more into the pot than they take out. Oh, and just in case you'll only accept a link that starts with the Daily Mail...

    Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think we should throw child benefit to other countries. I was merely commenting on the typical sensationalist ******** that we have come to expect from the Daily Mail, anyone claiming it has 'nothing to do with the amount, it's the principle', please do explain why the article makes a point of the amount in the article.


    Quote Originally Posted by -:undertaker:-
    Why is it that whenever a story like this rightly comes to our attention, all you and others can shout about is the Daily Mail or that the amount in the grand scheme of the entire budget isn't actually much: as though that makes it right or morally acceptable despite our huge national debt.

    And your OH so intelligent because you read the 'I' on your Sixth Form lunch break. Oh la de da. :rolleyes:
    Sure, cutting this from our huge national debt would be wonderful. That would mean we are only left with £1,254,000,000,000 left to sort out. Lovely. As I state above, I was merely commenting on the fact that £30m is hardly something to become outraged over - such it would be nice to not pay it out, but it really isn't going to solve the national debt - not even make a dent.

    And please, you're childish assumptions of what I did during Sixth Form lunch times are embarrassingly pathetic. I've never read the 'I' in my life, and certainly not during Sixth Form lunch breaks (which I only endured once a week, anyway :rolleyes.


    Quote Originally Posted by -:undertaker:-
    What, you HAVE to be kidding!? What planet are you on?

    Admittedly, I made that comment purely for your reaction



  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by scottish View Post
    Thoughts?

    I think it's ridiculous, why were they even being paid in the first place? soon as they leave the UK all benefits should be stopped.
    I never even knew this happened. I agree with you though.

    To be honest I think we should leave the EU.

  4. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance View Post
    Hahaha the Huffington Post, a beacon of truth and the newspaper of educated students. :rolleyes:

    As for putting more in, we're always told that by the same people/organisations who also predicted only 13,000 a year would come in their previous studies or that the Euro would be a thumping success. What always interests me though is despite most immigrants actually taking very low level jobs (on pitiful wages) it has often been said that you only start putting into the pot once you earn a certain amount - until then you are actually a net drain as you take more out than you put in, which certainly makes me question how immigrants picking cabbages in a field earning £15,000 a year are paying more in.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance
    Now, don't get me wrong, I don't think we should throw child benefit to other countries. I was merely commenting on the typical sensationalist ******** that we have come to expect from the Daily Mail, anyone claiming it has 'nothing to do with the amount, it's the principle', please do explain why the article makes a point of the amount in the article.
    There's nothing sensationalist here and besides, show me a newspaper that isn't sensationalist. Duh.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance
    Sure, cutting this from our huge national debt would be wonderful. That would mean we are only left with £1,254,000,000,000 left to sort out. Lovely. As I state above, I was merely commenting on the fact that £30m is hardly something to become outraged over - such it would be nice to not pay it out, but it really isn't going to solve the national debt - not even make a dent.
    You have to start somewhere, and you start on the places that are most wasteful.

    Would I rather save £30m here or cut £30m from my local cancer hospital?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance
    And please, you're childish assumptions of what I did during Sixth Form lunch times are embarrassingly pathetic. I've never read the 'I' in my life, and certainly not during Sixth Form lunch breaks (which I only endured once a week, anyway :rolleyes.
    But your so eager to show just how educated you are compared to the oiks who read the Mail.

    The Guardian? The Huffington Post? Beacons of truth!

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance
    Admittedly, I made that comment purely for your reaction
    I bet you believe it though.



  5. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    Hahaha the Huffington Post, a beacon of truth and the newspaper of educated students. :rolleyes:

    As for putting more in, we're always told that by the same people/organisations who also predicted only 13,000 a year would come in their previous studies or that the Euro would be a thumping success. What always interests me though is despite most immigrants actually taking very low level jobs (on pitiful wages) it has often been said that you only start putting into the pot once you earn a certain amount - until then you are actually a net drain as you take more out than you put in, which certainly makes me question how immigrants picking cabbages in a field earning £15,000 a year are paying more in.
    I knew you would react to the HP, hence the second source. You can't claim everyone is lying...

    Yes, because all immigrants spend all day picking cabbage fields. You're arguments never cease to amaze me; you refuse ANY evidence that doesn't back up your viewpoint, accusing those who produced it - in short - of lying. Embarrassment.


    Quote Originally Posted by -:undertaker:-
    There's nothing sensationalist here and besides, show me a newspaper that isn't sensationalist. Duh.
    The figure of £30m is sensationalist; on the basis that people become outraged because they forget to realise that £30m on a national scale is NOT the same as £30m in one persons pocket.

    Quote Originally Posted by -:undertaker:-
    You have to start somewhere, and you start on the places that are most wasteful.

    Would I rather save £30m here or cut £30m from my local cancer hospital?
    Indeed, but I'd suggest targeting slightly bigger cuts than this first..


    Quote Originally Posted by -:undertaker:-
    your so eager to show just how educated you are compared to the oiks who read the Mail.

    The Guardian? The Huffington Post? Beacons of truth!
    Huffington Post was the first result that came up on Google - there were various other sources available. I'm not 'eager' to prove anything. And please, the Guardian? No chance.


    Quote Originally Posted by -:undertaker:-
    I bet you believe it though.
    Well, I believe it would be better placed there than it would be going into child benefit. However, I also believe there are many other more important places it could go - but also realise that, realistically, most major Govt departments wouldn't even flinch at £30m being taking out of their budget.


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    Has anyone even read the article? The money goes to the parents who are working in Britain, not randomly transferred throughout Europe. That's 20,660 people who are here adding to the economy and getting £20-30 in allowances for doing so. It's a bit weird giving child benefits to those who aren't directly responsible for the child at the time, but hardly criminal, and the claim that this is money "being sent abroad" is totally unfounded since the money stays in the country unless the recipient chooses to transfer it away, as anyone may do with the money in their own account.
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  7. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    As for putting more in, we're always told that by the same people/organisations who also predicted only 13,000 a year would come in their previous studies or that the Euro would be a thumping success..
    You're a moron if you think that's an acceptable and logical argument to make.
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_was_wrong_before
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_was_wrong_before
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_was_wrong_before
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_was_wrong_before
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_was_wrong_before
    http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Science_was_wrong_before

    You remind me of the lawyer in this video

    Last edited by The Don; 07-01-2015 at 04:47 PM.
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  8. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance View Post
    I knew you would react to the HP, hence the second source. You can't claim everyone is lying...

    Yes, because all immigrants spend all day picking cabbage fields. You're arguments never cease to amaze me; you refuse ANY evidence that doesn't back up your viewpoint, accusing those who produced it - in short - of lying. Embarrassment.
    I thought the line (and that I always hear from those advocating open borders) was that we needed uncontrolled borders because lazy Britons weren't willing to do the low-level jobs such as picking the crops themselves? I'm just repeating what advocates of open borders (ie government and big corporations) are always telling us all.

    Or has the argument now shifted again?

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance
    The figure of £30m is sensationalist; on the basis that people become outraged because they forget to realise that £30m on a national scale is NOT the same as £30m in one persons pocket.
    That's not sensationalist.

    If the Mail says that £30m of taxpayers money is being wasted overseas in Europe on children who don't even live here, then that is a statement of fact and not sensationalist in the slightest. Is saying the Iraq War cost £1bn sensationalist too? No, it's a statement of fact.

    Stop trying to weave a criticism of the Daily Mail into every article, if you wanted to criticise the Mail properly in relation to this story then you could easily do so (and I would join you) by questioning as to how the Daily Mail can complain about something like this yet still officially supports Britain's membership of the European Union at the same time. Now that would be a just criticism to level at the newspaper, accusing it of hypocrisy.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance
    Indeed, but I'd suggest targeting slightly bigger cuts than this first..
    Oh absolutely, but as well as this.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance
    Huffington Post was the first result that came up on Google - there were various other sources available. I'm not 'eager' to prove anything. And please, the Guardian? No chance.
    See, isn't it annoying when you get into having to defend what source the story is from. Welcome to my world.

    Quote Originally Posted by MyChemicalRomance
    Well, I believe it would be better placed there than it would be going into child benefit. However, I also believe there are many other more important places it could go - but also realise that, realistically, most major Govt departments wouldn't even flinch at £30m being taking out of their budget.
    Because our government as a whole is wasteful and bloated, so of course they don't care. That's the problem.

    Quote Originally Posted by The Don View Post
    You're a moron if you think that's an acceptable and logical argument to make.
    Why do advocates of the European project/mass immigration get it wrong so much and so badly?

    I'm the supposed moron yet my side of the argument has a track record of being right on this. Go figure who the morons are.
    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 07-01-2015 at 06:45 PM.



  9. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    IWhy do advocates of the European project/mass immigration get it wrong so much and so badly?

    I'm the supposed moron yet my side of the argument has a track record of being right on this. Go figure who the morons are.
    You are indeed a moron if you think somethings wrong on the basis that different people were wrong about different things in the past.
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  10. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Don View Post
    You are indeed a moron if you think somethings wrong on the basis that different people were wrong about different things in the past.
    No, the same people actually.

    http://www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/ar...-confront.html

    Quote Originally Posted by DM
    The BBC and the liberal media were ****-a-hoop yesterday because of a report on migration produced by two academics from University College London. According to various excitable and one-sided accounts, EU migrants have added £20 billion to the economy in ten years.

    The general tenor of much of the coverage was: ‘So there!’ The report was represented as a poke in the eye for those who have questioned the speed and volume of immigration into this country over recent years.

    Underlying a welter of approving articles was the subtext that European immigration is an unqualified good thing. Ukip and their supporters, and now David Cameron and the Tories, are simply misguided in asserting that it isn’t.

    This response seems infantile for a number of reasons. And it doesn’t advance the important national debate on immigration in the slightest way. For one thing, why believe the figure of £20 billion? It’s just a number produced by two academics. Can they be sure? Of course they can’t. Anyone who uncritically accepts such figures is being credulous.

    My own natural suspiciousness is increased because one of the two authors of the report is Professor Christian Dustmann, the other being Dr Tommaso Frattini. I know nothing of Dr Frattini, but Professor Dustmann has form.

    In 2003, he was the lead author of a report for the Home Office which predicted that, after eight East European countries joined the EU in 2004, the level of immigration into this country would increase by between 5,000 and 13,000 a year.

    This proved to be the one of the most idiotic forecasts ever made. Within five years, more than a million East Europeans (more than half of them Poles) had arrived, an annual average of 200,000 — many times the original estimate.

    We all make mistakes, but this one was a whopper. Many of us would have been floored, and possibly considered slipping away in shame to New Zealand.

    Professor Dustmann has stuck at it, but I can’t deny that my confidence has been dented.
    Lol, now stop projecting yourself onto me.
    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 07-01-2015 at 06:57 PM.



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