This just in: George Osborne really doesn't like young people

[Circadia]

George Osborne has delivered a tough budget for young people, warning them they must either “earn or learn”, and scrapping maintenance grants that support students from the poorest backgrounds through university.In a budget speech stressed that those who can work must work, Osborne warned young people aged 18 to 21 there would be no automatic entitlement to housing benefit, with exceptions only for the most vulnerable.

In addition,the new national living wage, which is being introduced next year at £7.20, rising to £9 by 2020, will apply only to over-25s, which will be seen as further penalising young people.

http://www.theguardian.com/education...scrapped-loans

Did he just think 'ah yes, what would make it even more harder for students from a deprived socioeconomic background to go to university other than increasing tuition fees? I know! How about changing the maintenance grant to a loan so that they'll be in even more debt! And while we're at it, let's just raise the living wage for 25+ cause **** those just coming out of uni, they don't need money'

Thanks for voting Tories

[lemons]

scrapping maintenance grants is disappointing but as far as i know it won't affect me because i start uni this year

young people tend to vote less so this is all to be expected

[Empired]

the whole university system is ****** in my opinion

University should be for the top 5% of people and they should get to go no matter what their social background because their intelligence has proven that they deserve to be there. I don't understand how 70% (or whatever) of people leaving further education going to university benefits anyone (except universities obv) really.

[Kardan]

the whole university system is ****** in my opinion

University should be for the top 5% of people and they should get to go no matter what their social background because their intelligence has proven that they deserve to be there. I don't understand how 70% (or whatever) of people leaving further education going to university benefits anyone (except universities obv) really.

But surely those top 5% are still going to do really well even if the "lower 65%" are attending university with them?

And in regards to the topic at hand, earn or learn? More like earn and learn for some. I wouldn't have been able to get through university without the grant.

[dbgtz]

Changing grant to loan won't make a huge difference since most people won't pay off their loans as it is since it's written off in 25 or 30 years (don't remember). If anything, it just means people who succeed very well pay more. The average person will not notice this since payment is based solely off of income and not the amount borrowed.

The minimum wage proposed is also better than the £8 by 2020 proposed by Labour (though there are other factors I've not properly looked into like tax credits etc.). They may have limited it to over 25s, but this is arguably to make getting a career more competitive for younger, less skilled labour. The chances are, should you do well enough, you will be paid higher than the minimum wage anyway.

I'm not a huge Conservative fan by any means, but I certainly do agree with the change of grants to loans & any increase in pay is better than none at the end of the day.

[Kardan]

Changing grant to loan won't make a huge difference since most people won't pay off their loans as it is since it's written off in 25 or 30 years (don't remember). If anything, it just means people who succeed very well pay more. The average person will not notice this since payment is based solely off of income and not the amount borrowed.

The minimum wage proposed is also better than the £8 by 2020 proposed by Labour (though there are other factors I've not properly looked into like tax credits etc.). They may have limited it to over 25s, but this is arguably to make getting a career more competitive for younger, less skilled labour. The chances are, should you do well enough, you will be paid higher than the minimum wage anyway.

I'm not a huge Conservative fan by any means, but I certainly do agree with the change of grants to loans & any increase in pay is better than none at the end of the day.

If you are right in saying that the majority of people won't even pay this added loan off, then the Conservatives are even more stupid than I thought, because if people are currently getting up to £3,300 free but will now be getting up to £8,200 in a loan but most people won't pay it back - surely that's a worse place than where we are now?

Anyway - I reckon a majority of graduates would pay back the majority of their loans - So, tuition fees are now £9k for most university places and now you can get a maintenance loan of up to £8,200. That would be £17,200 a year, so for a normal 3 year course that's already £51,600 debt. Plus the interest.

Students have 25 years to pay it off and they must earn above £21,000. As far as I'm aware you currently pay back 9% of your wage each month.

9% of £21,000 is £1,890. Times that by 25 and you should expect someone on the minimum payback income to pay £47,250 over the 25 years.

You would assume that most graduates would be on more than £21,000 - so I'm not entirely sure how you reckon that most graduates won't pay their loans off unless graduate unemployment starts to rise massively.

So either graduates will notice the extra money they will payback since if graduates stay in employment they should pay nearly all of it back, or the country is screwed because we're lending more money out that won't be paid back. Either way, it doesn't sound good.

[Inseriousity.]

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...-warn-MPs.html

They estimated that 45% of students will never pay their loans off in full. That number's just going to increase now. The whole loans system is not fit for purpose and instead of fixing it, they've just made it worse.

[MKR&*42]

Oh goodie.

One step closer to the mess that the US University system is.
--
Seriously though, this is a very poor and distasteful move and I can see it potentially deterring quite a few people. But what can I say... I'm not shocked when the Conservatives announce measures like this.

[dbgtz]

If you are right in saying that the majority of people won't even pay this added loan off, then the Conservatives are even more stupid than I thought, because if people are currently getting up to £3,300 free but will now be getting up to £8,200 in a loan but most people won't pay it back - surely that's a worse place than where we are now?

Anyway - I reckon a majority of graduates would pay back the majority of their loans - So, tuition fees are now £9k for most university places and now you can get a maintenance loan of up to £8,200. That would be £17,200 a year, so for a normal 3 year course that's already £51,600 debt. Plus the interest.

Students have 25 years to pay it off and they must earn above £21,000. As far as I'm aware you currently pay back 9% of your wage each month.

9% of £21,000 is £1,890. Times that by 25 and you should expect someone on the minimum payback income to pay £47,250 over the 25 years.

You would assume that most graduates would be on more than £21,000 - so I'm not entirely sure how you reckon that most graduates won't pay their loans off unless graduate unemployment starts to rise massively.

So either graduates will notice the extra money they will payback since if graduates stay in employment they should pay nearly all of it back, or the country is screwed because we're lending more money out that won't be paid back. Either way, it doesn't sound good.

It's not 9% of £21,000 (see: http://www.studentloanrepayment.co.u..._schema=PORTAL).

It's not worse at all since, while you're essentially still giving the money away, there's a greater chance of gaining some back should someone who'd normally be entitled to a grant earn enough to pay it all. It also might mean there's less abuse in the system and people take the loan they need rather than claim it all and then shoving it in a bank account.

[Kardan]

It's not 9% of £21,000 (see: http://www.studentloanrepayment.co.u..._schema=PORTAL).

It's not worse at all since, while you're essentially still giving the money away, there's a greater chance of gaining some back should someone who'd normally be entitled to a grant earn enough to pay it all. It also might mean there's less abuse in the system and people take the loan they need rather than claim it all and then shoving it in a bank account.

Ah, so my maths is all wrong - that means it's even harder for people to pay it all off. That means in order to pay off the £51,600+ loan in 25 years, you need to be earning just over £21,000 OVER the threshold per year - so you need a £42,000 average salary over 25 years to get close to paying it off? That's ridiculous!

Plus, it's not only 'still giving the money away', under this system the government are giving MORE money away. At the moment the max maintenance grant + loan you can get is less than £8,200 - under the new system, the government will be giving more money away initially.