EU Referendum Megathread (Brexit)

[The Don]

Received my card in the post the other day, also registering for some volunteering events next weekend! Can't wait to vote remain.

I'm still very much undecided but after doing research I'm swaying towards Remain. I have other things that I believe the Leave said are saying that are a bit dramatic but I don't want to get killed by people on here who are Leave supporters.

inb4 dan tries to convert you

For a good unbiased breakdown of everything look at:
https://fullfact.org/europe/

[abc]

Look, I understand why some people want to leave. They do not want a lot of people coming in to our country and I understand that. A lot of people have that feeling that "it is MY country", why are we letting foreigners in?

However, people need to realise this is the year 2016. Everyone is moving around the world, and having free unrestricted access to work in the world's largest market is better than being confined to working in the UK. What would happen say tomorrow if we vote to leave and immediately after or sometime in the near future the country suffers another recession? There will be so many job losses and due to our decision to leave, our citizens would be restricted to working free only only in the UK, a country with limited jobs.

We will still supply to the EU but with more trade restrictions or tariffs in place. We would be on the doorstep of the world's largest market yet we would be on the outside while other world leaders would be making decisions which affect us and we will have zero say.

Is the EU perfect? Of course not, just how most other things in life are not perfect. However is remaining much better than leaving? Definitely.

Great Britain has values and a unique identity. Having people come in won't destroy that identity. One of the country's greatest assets has been our acceptance of people, yet here we are saying that is something we do not want?

The Remain campaign are basing their comments based on facts of past track records. The Remain campaign are just basing everything on IFS and BUTS, none of which they can substantiate.

Any country which has free unrestricted access to the world largest economy would be absolutely stupid to even consider leaving, let alone actually doing it.

Traveling the world is becoming easier everyday and with time more and more people will begin moving away from their birth cities and countries. And by leaving, we would be restricting the young generations and future generations as to what they can achieve in life. Instead of broadening our opportunities people are considering restricting it and it just makes zero sense.

[-:Undertaker:-]

If you have to wait in a hospital for longer than you should, if you have to wait for school places longer than you should, if you're on minimum wage having to compete with other unskilled workers from Eastern Europe who will sleep 12 to a bedsit and don't have bills to pay, if your local area is being changed beyond what it was in terms of culture, if your struggling to get social housing whilst others walk in from abroad and get it.... then @abc; hears you. But it's 2016 folks. That's his argument. That's all he has to say: too bad and tells you what year it is. I say that's just not good enough.

Well let's have a different 2017, one like Norway or Switzerland - or Australia or Canada. Let's allow immigration but so that it is controlled. Let's take control of our borders with Europe so that we can allow French bankers, German engineers and Italian restaurant owners in. But let's do it so that we can choose who we want and the numbers we want. Today in 2016 most developed countries have controlled national borders and operate using this sensible system. Immigration yes, but controlled and more importantly so that we can control it at the ballot box rather than giving up that essential democratic choice to the unelected European Commission.

There will be so many job losses and due to our decision to leave, our citizens would be restricted to working free only only in the UK, a country with limited jobs.

He says the Remain campaign is based on facts but look at this statement. First he thinks he can fool you into thinking it means an end to you being able to work in Europe then he is blissfully is unaware that millions of British people already work abroad just fine. And that's good. The snag is, in non-EU countries.

There's 1,300,000 British nationals in non-EU Australia.

There's 761,000 British nationals in EU Spain.

There's 678,000 British nationals in non-EU America.

There's 603,000 British nationals in non-EU Canada.


Out of the top ten places abroad where British nationals live and work, only 5 of those 10 are EU countries. Don't let him kid you.

[abc]

Well let's have a different 2017, one like Switzerland

Yes like Switzerland where the country's ministers have openly said they wish they were in the EU.

he is blissfully is unaware that millions of British people already work abroad just fine.

The above just shows how ignorant you are and totally did not read my post. I clearly said people want to move abroad (and thank you for proving that for me). And I clearly said by leaving the EU, we are restricting people free access to the world's largest economy.

Dan, please read what I say instead of making up rubbish like the Leave campaign.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Yes like Switzerland where the country's ministers have openly said they wish they were in the EU.

Exactly and that's the point. The politicians all want to join but the Swiss and Norwegian people are overwhelmingly against it.

http://www.thelocal.no/20141128/norw...e-say-no-to-eu

Only 17% of Norwegians want to join the EU with 74% against. It clearly isn't all as bad as you'd like us all to believe outside the EU.

The above just shows how ignorant you are and totally did not read my post. I clearly said people want to move abroad (and thank you for proving that for me). And I clearly said by leaving the EU, we are restricting people free access to the world's largest economy.

Dan, please read what I say instead of making up rubbish like the Leave campaign.

See this is the problem, you don't even understand your own argument.

Non-EU Norway has exactly the same access to the Single Market via the EEA. Will you please stop attempting to paint a scary picture of life outside the European Unoon when we have quite easy access via visas already to America (the world's largest economy) as well as Australia, India, China and countless others. The British passport is one of the most valuable in the world in terms of diplomatic clout it carries. You do not have to be in the EU to trade with it or to travel and work in it.

Britons will be able to travel quite freely to the EU once we've left just as they were able to before and can do so now to non-EU countries.

[The Don]

Exactly and that's the point. The politicians all want to join but the Swiss and Norweigan people are overwhelmingly against it.



See this is the problem, you don't even understand your own argument.

Non-EU Norway has exactly the same access to the Single Market via the EEA. Will you please stop attempting to paint a scary picture of life outside the European Unoon when we have quite easy access via visas already to America (the world's largest economy) as well as Australia, India, China and countless others. The British passport is one of the most valuable in the world in terms of diplomatic clout it carries. You do not have to be in the EU to trade with it or to travel and work in it.

Britons will be able to travel quite freely to the EU once we've left just as they were able to before and can do so now to non-EU countries.

And Norway has to let anyone from the EU in their country rendering your previous post entirely pointless.

[-:Undertaker:-]

And Norway has to let anyone from the EU in their country rendering your previous post entirely pointless.

If you want total free movement to continue then you can argue for EEA membership. That'd at least be a rational argument from your side, that we'd keep the status quo now in terms of trade agreement and immigration rules but we'd be free from the unwanted movement towards continued political union.

Then there's EFTA membership or an FTA which I favour. It'd be entirely our choice as a democratic country and not the unelected European Commission.

[abc]

we have quite easy access via visas already to America

Do you not know it isn't easy to get jobs abroad especially in USA etc? Is it possible? Yes but it is difficult. With the EU, when you apply for jobs you are FREE WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS to work in any of the EU countries. Your job opportunities have automatically widened.

Akeam has answered the other point on my behalf.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Do you not know it isn't easy to get jobs abroad especially in USA etc? Is it possible? Yes but it is difficult. With the EU, when you apply for jobs you are FREE WITHOUT RESTRICTIONS to work in any of the EU countries. Your job opportunities have automatically widened.

Akeam has answered the other point on my behalf.

And he predictably ignores my points on the EEA (without the march to political union aspect) also offering free movement should the public wish to continue it.

[abc]

To further add to the post above, you paint the Swiss model as PERFECT. Just read the below:

Swiss businesses, while having access to Europe's markets, are not on a level playing field with their EU counterparts.

Precision engineering company Rueger sells 50% of its products to the EU.

"Compare just the logistic costs," explains managing director Bernard Rueger. "It's simple in Europe, in terms of administration, in terms of tax, they are working in the same unique market, whereas here in Switzerland we have to export our goods."

"And it's probably 4-6% more costly exporting from Switzerland."

Add to that the overvaluation of the Swiss franc and Switzerland's products start to become very expensive. That is why Rueger now has a plant in the Netherlands, offering jobs that might otherwise have stayed in Switzerland.

And it is why the managing director, from a purely business standpoint, has some blunt advice for his British colleagues. "My first advice is to vote to stay in," he says. "It's a crucial market."

If the vote goes the other way, Mr Rueger believes, many British firms will have "no choice" but to move some production capacity inside the European Union proper.

Swiss universities were blocked from European research projects. Swiss students were denied access to the Erasmus exchange programme.

"Being kicked out of that scheme represents a real handicap," says Andreas Mortensen, Vice-Provost of Switzerland's prestigious Federal Institute of Technology in Lausanne.

"As a researcher, you would certainly rather want to remain within the EU. The benefits from being part of the EU research community are the intellectual oomph and the opportunities for collaboration."

Student Zilia Schwartz, who had just been accepted on an Erasmus exchange to the Netherlands, was affected too.

"I was about to go on my exchange and then there was this vote, and it was like: 'Oh maybe you can't go'," she said.

The above is self explanatory. You want to restrict our citizens opportunities? Then you are a fool.