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  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz View Post
    my position hasnt exactly changed
    referendums are trash when theres so much misinformation and shit like this: https://w4b.world/ so id absolutely rather revoke, but the only actual option on the table (at least right now) to revoke is a second vote
    So what happens if you then lose the second referendum? And should we ban elections due to misinformation too?
    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 31-07-2019 at 10:41 PM.



  2. #22
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    Great idea HMG is weighing up that will be possible immediately upon us exiting the Customs Union with No Deal.

    I have long been in support of these free port/low taxation zones, and they should be focused on the areas of the Belfast dockyards, the River Mersey, the Humber, The Clyde and other areas across the country that need to be rebalanced and revived (as they have been in part already).

    Britain in the post-EU era needs to re-orientate away from London and the south-east towards Liverpool, Glasgow, Belfast, Manchester, Leeds etc. Not with talk and gimmicks, but with real deregulation, low taxation and radical projects. Like Thatcherism did with Canary Wharf dockyards.

    I knew Liz Truss would be an excellent Cabinet addition.

    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 02-08-2019 at 08:49 PM.



  3. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    So what happens if you then lose the second referendum? And should we ban elections due to misinformation too?
    then i keep disagreeing and fighting against it, i dont have to become docile just because a slim majority voted for it after years of lies and gaslighting
    a good start for elections would be reform which i believe was "recommended" (i think it was more just a general statement) in an enquiry (cant remember which exactly it was)

    fundamentally the information available and published has to be true otherwise how can you say any of this is democratic, and im not talking about predictions like "britain will be better out of the eu" where they could will be lying, but statements like one recently by bojo about kippers

    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    Great idea HMG is weighing up that will be possible immediately upon us exiting the Customs Union with No Deal.

    I have long been in support of these free port/low taxation zones, and they should be focused on the areas of the Belfast dockyards, the River Mersey, the Humber, The Clyde and other areas across the country that need to be rebalanced and revived (as they have been in part already).

    Britain in the post-EU era needs to re-orientate away from London and the south-east towards Liverpool, Glasgow, Belfast, Manchester, Leeds etc. Not with talk and gimmicks, but with real deregulation, low taxation and radical projects. Like Thatcherism did with Canary Wharf dockyards.

    I knew Liz Truss would be an excellent Cabinet addition.

    we already had free ports as part of the eu which the government decided to not renew, why do we need to leave the eu to do this? the other areas that have been revived has primarily been down to eu investment rather than our own government - little the recent governments have done have inspired hope in outside london funding

    can you explain what deregulation is going to help the north, how low taxation is going to help the north and what radical projects are going to help the north
    thanks

  4. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz View Post
    then i keep disagreeing and fighting against it, i dont have to become docile just because a slim majority voted for it after years of lies and gaslighting
    a good start for elections would be reform which i believe was "recommended" (i think it was more just a general statement) in an enquiry (cant remember which exactly it was)

    fundamentally the information available and published has to be true otherwise how can you say any of this is democratic, and im not talking about predictions like "britain will be better out of the eu" where they could will be lying, but statements like one recently by bojo about kippers
    So basically your position is that no matter how many times Britain votes to leave the EU, you'll never accept it as legitimate?

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    we already had free ports as part of the eu which the government decided to not renew, why do we need to leave the eu to do this? the other areas that have been revived has primarily been down to eu investment rather than our own government - little the recent governments have done have inspired hope in outside london funding
    Free ports whilst abiding by EU regulatory and customs regime is a complete waste of time.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    can you explain what deregulation is going to help the north, how low taxation is going to help the north and what radical projects are going to help the north
    thanks
    Sure, there's a few.

    - Abolish business rates (centrally) in deprived areas and replace initial revenue loss to councils from Whitehall.
    - Provide tax breaks/grants for former commercial to residential conversions on high streets to revive the areas.
    - Improve inter-connectivity between northern cities and towns with HS2 scrapped and the old Beeching railway lines re-opening.
    - Encourage brownfield development in inner-cities with government funds/subsidies for land decontamination.
    - Tilt business taxes to encouraging firms/companies to being located in city centres instead of on isolated business parks off motorways.
    - Introduce free ports in places such as Liverpool, Hull, Belfast and Aberdeen to become import/export hubs.
    - Mandate developers in city centres to begin building a certain % of family-sized apartments in new developments.
    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 03-08-2019 at 07:02 PM.


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  5. #25
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    Interesting tonight with Dominic Cummings (brain behind Vote Leave and PM's Senior Advisor)....



    Buried in the Fixed Term Parliament Act (FTPA) is this...

    "If a new Government cannot be formed within this time period, then dissolution is triggered. There is no provision for an extension of the 14 day period. Dissolution need not follow immediately on a triggering event, as section 2(7) allows for the Prime Minister to recommend a suitable polling day to the Crown ."
    That would seem to suggest that if the Government is VONC in September, and an alternative ministry cannot be formed which is very likely given many will never put Corbyn as PM and Corbyn will never put anyone else in as PM, then Boris as PM could simply recommend to the monarch that the date of the election take place after the end of October. And as by convention, the monarch always enacts the Prime Minister's advice.

    It does seem like Remainers like Sir Oliver Letwin and Dominic Grieve were right last month that the HoC has missed its last chance.



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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    So basically your position is that no matter how many times Britain votes to leave the EU, you'll never accept it as legitimate?
    accepting something as legitimate is not the same as accepting the result
    and fundamentally accepting the result doesnt mean you have to sit back and do nothing

    Free ports whilst abiding by EU regulatory and customs regime is a complete waste of time.
    how? whats the difference?

    Sure, there's a few.

    - Abolish business rates (centrally) in deprived areas and replace initial revenue loss to councils from Whitehall.
    - Provide tax breaks/grants for former commercial to residential conversions on high streets to revive the areas.
    - Improve inter-connectivity between northern cities and towns with HS2 scrapped and the old Beeching railway lines re-opening.
    - Encourage brownfield development in inner-cities with government funds/subsidies for land decontamination.
    - Tilt business taxes to encouraging firms/companies to being located in city centres instead of on isolated business parks off motorways.
    - Introduce free ports in places such as Liverpool, Hull, Belfast and Aberdeen to become import/export hubs.
    - Mandate developers in city centres to begin building a certain % of family-sized apartments in new developments.
    interesting suggestions coming from someone who supposedly wants a small state, slight shift from you?

    - where does this extra funding come from?
    - dont necessarily disagree with this but all i see happening is the developers making more money and the residential still being too expensive
    - dont necessarily disagree with this either but theres quite a lot of issues with rail already and this wont help with that, so would need to be balanced
    - actually agree with this providing, however bit weird youre suggesting using government spending for this
    - "tilting" means nothing
    - ok
    - sounds like state intervention there

    fundamentally though we can do all of this already so why do we need to leave the eu to do it

  7. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz View Post
    accepting something as legitimate is not the same as accepting the result
    and fundamentally accepting the result doesnt mean you have to sit back and do nothing
    You know, it really is quite sad how this issue has driven so many to madness. Democracy works on consent, that we debate and then the public decides as it did in 2015 when David Cameron's Conservatives won a majority despite all I had tried to do. But you know what? I didn't conjure up some conspiracy that people were misled and deep down didn't really want him as PM, I accepted it the minute the result came out.

    Has it never occurred to you that the reason you lost isn't Russia, newspapers, misinformation - it's because people genuinely want to leave the EU? Generally around the world, people wish to be governed by institutions they feel attachment to. We have none to Europe.

    Quote Originally Posted by dgbtz
    how? whats the difference?
    Right now we're bound by EU law and customs.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    interesting suggestions coming from someone who supposedly wants a small state, slight shift from you?

    - where does this extra funding come from?
    - dont necessarily disagree with this but all i see happening is the developers making more money and the residential still being too expensive
    - dont necessarily disagree with this either but theres quite a lot of issues with rail already and this wont help with that, so would need to be balanced
    - actually agree with this providing, however bit weird youre suggesting using government spending for this
    - "tilting" means nothing
    - ok
    - sounds like state intervention there

    fundamentally though we can do all of this already so why do we need to leave the eu to do it
    I don't claim leaving the EU will solve all of our problems. I do think we should take the opportunity of Brexit, something the May Ministry never understood which this Ministry appears to, to be radical with policy. After the 31st October, we will have total legislative control. Exciting.
    Last edited by -:Undertaker:-; 04-08-2019 at 10:07 AM.



  8. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    You know, it really is quite sad how this issue has driven so many to madness. Democracy works on consent, that we debate and then the public decides as it did in 2015 when David Cameron's Conservatives won a majority despite all I had tried to do. But you know what? I didn't conjure up some conspiracy that people were misled and deep down didn't really want him as PM, I accepted it the minute the result came out.

    Has it never occurred to you that the reason you lost isn't Russia, newspapers, misinformation - it's because people genuinely want to leave the EU? Generally around the world, people wish to be governed by institutions they feel attachment to. We have none to Europe.
    when did i mention russia? and there is clear, undeniable lies being told and this is not a conspiracy theory
    democracy works on consent, sure, but it also relies on accurate information and if people are being told the eu is responsible for everything bad when its actually our own government, how do you expect them to make an informed decision? listening to some of the arguments people make for brexit and its just so illogical but theyre so entrenched at this point they cant see it - have you actually listened to reasons people voted for brexit?

    then theres also the illegal harvesting of individuals data, and yes it was illegal and they knew it given they tried to hide it , watch the great hack if you havent already

    Right now we're bound by EU law and customs.
    what's that got to do with free ports though
    completely irrelevant

    I don't claim leaving the EU will solve all of our problems. I do think we should take the opportunity of Brexit, something the May Ministry never understood which this Ministry appears to, to be radical with policy. After the 31st October, we will have total legislative control. Exciting.
    but we could have done this the entire time, this isnt an opportunity of brexit this is an opportunity of the past 50 years that could have been taken up. youre trying to spin it as a positive of brexit but it could have been done without it, you do see that yes?
    like you speak of thatcherism helping london, but it was basically thatcherism which killed the north and a lot of people up there (as far as im aware) still resent her for that - this also highlights the point that it was basically our own government causing the decline of these areas to begin with

    also i forgot to say this before but nothing you said was really regulation, so is there any particular regulation youre looking forward to binning?

  9. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz View Post
    when did i mention russia? and there is clear, undeniable lies being told and this is not a conspiracy theory
    democracy works on consent, sure, but it also relies on accurate information and if people are being told the eu is responsible for everything bad when its actually our own government, how do you expect them to make an informed decision? listening to some of the arguments people make for brexit and its just so illogical but theyre so entrenched at this point they cant see it - have you actually listened to reasons people voted for brexit?
    So you're saying until people agree the EU is a good thing, every vote on it is illegitimate?

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    then theres also the illegal harvesting of individuals data, and yes it was illegal and they knew it given they tried to hide it, watch the great hack if you havent already
    I stopped watching InfoWars style conspiracy theory videos like ten years ago.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    what's that got to do with free ports though
    completely irrelevant
    Control our own tariffs/customs/regulations and we can make our ports competitive.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    but we could have done this the entire time, this isnt an opportunity of brexit this is an opportunity of the past 50 years that could have been taken up. youre trying to spin it as a positive of brexit but it could have been done without it, you do see that yes?
    like you speak of thatcherism helping london, but it was basically thatcherism which killed the north and a lot of people up there (as far as im aware) still resent her for that - this also highlights the point that it was basically our own government causing the decline of these areas to begin with
    Thatcherism didn't kill heavy industries, far-left Unions did.

    That's why Germany still has heavy industry and we do not.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    also i forgot to say this before but nothing you said was really regulation, so is there any particular regulation youre looking forward to binning?
    Three areas of policy regulation I am looking forward to in particular to scrapping, yep.

    - The Common Fisheries Policy.
    - The Common Agricultural Policy.
    - Freedom of Movement.



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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    So you're saying until people agree the EU is a good thing, every vote on it is illegitimate?
    **** hell you dont half twist crap do you

    I stopped watching InfoWars style conspiracy theory videos like ten years ago.
    what
    most of the show is about parliamentary enquiries (and the us equivalent)

    Control our own tariffs/customs/regulations and we can make our ports competitive.
    thats nothing to do with free ports
    do you even know what a free port is

    Thatcherism didn't kill heavy industries, far-left Unions did.

    That's why Germany still has heavy industry and we do not.
    well it was effectively her widespread privatisation push that put a lot of out of work

    are you also just ignoring the fact youre trying to spin a positive of brexit on something that we could have always done or..?

    Three areas of policy regulation I am looking forward to in particular to scrapping, yep.

    - The Common Fisheries Policy.
    - The Common Agricultural Policy.
    - Freedom of Movement.
    and back to before, how will these help the north exactly?

    - - - Updated - - -

    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    So you're saying until people agree the EU is a good thing, every vote on it is illegitimate?
    **** hell you dont half twist crap do you

    I stopped watching InfoWars style conspiracy theory videos like ten years ago.
    what
    most of the show is about parliamentary enquiries (and the us equivalent)

    Control our own tariffs/customs/regulations and we can make our ports competitive.
    thats nothing to do with free ports
    do you even know what a free port is

    Thatcherism didn't kill heavy industries, far-left Unions did.

    That's why Germany still has heavy industry and we do not.
    well it was effectively her widespread privatisation push that put a lot of out of work

    are you also just ignoring the fact youre trying to spin a positive of brexit on something that we could have always done or..?

    Three areas of policy regulation I am looking forward to in particular to scrapping, yep.

    - The Common Fisheries Policy.
    - The Common Agricultural Policy.
    - Freedom of Movement.
    and back to before, how will these help the north exactly?

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