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  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post


    Not sure why the government would/should have thousands of ventilators in storage gathering dust. Clearly this is an unprecedented situation.

    It'd be like arguing we should buy 1,000 coast guard boats and build a 30ft seawall around the whole island in case a 25ft tsunami ever hits.

    congrats undertaker you literally just strawmanned me and then finished it off with some fake example that nobody has suggested. i never suggested we should have had thousands of ventilators waiting, but our means of acquiring them and lots of other medical equipment has been poor. the protection the NHS nurses have at the moment is not fit for purpose and the fact theyre not being tested is even worse. they know it too since theyre padding out by saying "100k tests a week" which most people will think is testing if someone has coronavirus, which it is not quite true.

    lets also not forget that the initial government advice was to just take it on the chin and basically advocated herd immunity which would have resulted in the deaths of so many more people. it took 19 days to go from that to lockdown
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  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz View Post
    congrats undertaker you literally just strawmanned me and then finished it off with some fake example that nobody has suggested. i never suggested we should have had thousands of ventilators waiting, but our means of acquiring them and lots of other medical equipment has been poor.
    Do you know why we're having trouble sourcing supplies? Because 192 other countries on the planet are also buying up those supplies at the same time. There's no endless supply of ventilators just sitting in a warehouse in Timbuktu waiting to be bought from eBay.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    the protection the NHS nurses have at the moment is not fit for purpose and the fact theyre not being tested is even worse. they know it too since theyre padding out by saying "100k tests a week" which most people will think is testing if someone has coronavirus, which it is not quite true.
    Firstly, every country in the world is trying to source tests.

    Secondly, there are only so many people who can administer/analyse tests.

    Thirdly, there's questions over the accuracy of tests.

    Fourthly, testing NHS staff is fruitless - you test Dr Jones on Monday evening and he's -tive, by Tuesday midday he could be +ve.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    lets also not forget that the initial government advice was to just take it on the chin and basically advocated herd immunity which would have resulted in the deaths of so many more people. it took 19 days to go from that to lockdown
    As we learnt more about the virus and it became clear from Italy that China had been lying.

    If you ask me, with human to animal transmission now happening, this will still be what has to happen in the end.


  3. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    Do you know why we're having trouble sourcing supplies? Because 192 other countries on the planet are also buying up those supplies at the same time. There's no endless supply of ventilators just sitting in a warehouse in Timbuktu waiting to be bought from eBay.
    why do you keep talking about ventilators as if thats the only thing lacking. the protection the staff has is dire compared to other countries and that does not take anywhere near as many resources to produce. the fact is we are lagging behind. they literally had to source scrubs from a medical fetish site



    Firstly, every country in the world is trying to source tests.

    Secondly, there are only so many people who can administer/analyse tests.

    Thirdly, there's questions over the accuracy of tests.

    Fourthly, testing NHS staff is fruitless - you test Dr Jones on Monday evening and he's -tive, by Tuesday midday he could be +ve.
    1 - this is true but then why are we doing so few in comparison to a lot of others?. 2 - the assumption with this is that were at capacity. 3 - have you actually looked up for some data on this or are you just quoting raab? 4 - it makes perfect sense. if they have symptoms and then have to self isolate, thats 1 less frontline staff. if they can prove they dont have it then they dont have to self isolate. i dont see how thats pointless?




    As we learnt more about the virus and it became clear from Italy that China had been lying.

    If you ask me, with human to animal transmission now happening, this will still be what has to happen in the end.
    while i dont disagree with the chinese covering up the extent, the fact is when the "take it on the chin" comment was made italy already had 15000 cases with over 1000 deaths and an upward trend. the government were far too slow or stupid to react to this at the time
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  4. #14
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    I really don't know what you're reading that we're the only country with medical shortages of face masks and everything else, maybe too much Channel 4 'News'. Nearly every country is fighting to get face masks, gloves - and some like Spain and Italy are ordering from China and finding they're useless.

    Italy, Spain, France, America, Britain...

    And like I said before, the tests themselves aren't very accurate at all - and are especially useless for medical staff who are exposed daily.


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    Quote Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:- View Post
    I really don't know what you're reading that we're the only country with medical shortages of face masks and everything else, maybe too much Channel 4 'News'. Nearly every country is fighting to get face masks, gloves - and some like Spain and Italy are ordering from China and finding they're useless.

    Italy, Spain, France, America, Britain...
    france has 140m masks in stockpile, they all have far more critical care beds and we have fewer ventilators per head (pre crisis) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52142083 with plenty of reports that the gov a few years ago were warned of something like this, too.

    whats this got to do with anything. btw youre basically implying its a bad thing the eu isnt managing this but youve spent years complaining the eu shouldnt exist and countries should be "independent"... which is it??

    And like I said before, the tests themselves aren't very accurate at all - and are especially useless for medical staff who are exposed daily.
    undertaker just repeating what you said before doesnt make you right. youve shown no evidence to suggest the inaccuracy of tests and ive literally just explained the benefits of testing frontline staff which you just ignored.

  6. #16
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    The public seem quite happy with the government. Twitter isn't Britain.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz View Post
    france has 140m masks in stockpile, they all have far more critical care beds and we have fewer ventilators per head (pre crisis) https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-52142083 with plenty of reports that the gov a few years ago were warned of something like this, too. whats this got to do with anything.
    France I have read also demands a charge from patients, like 20 to visit the Doctor.

    Buying thousands of ventilators and masks (which have a sell by date) to sit in storage would've been ridiculous.

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    btw youre basically implying its a bad thing the eu isnt managing this but youve spent years complaining the eu shouldnt exist and countries should be "independent"... which is it??
    What good is the European Union? When it comes to a major crisis like the Eurozone or this, it shows itself utterly useless.

    And I am not the only one to have noticed this...

    Quote Originally Posted by dbgtz
    undertaker just repeating what you said before doesnt make you right. youve shown no evidence to suggest the inaccuracy of tests and ive literally just explained the benefits of testing frontline staff which you just ignored.
    I'm just telling you what I have heard on the news.


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