Donald Trump & Flotus Test Positive for COVID-19

[dbgtz]

except it doesnt need to "burn itself through the population" since theres a massive focus on a vaccine at the moment
you're basically saying we should let people die prematurely because you're selfish

and if you hadnt voted in the current lot of monkeys then coronavirus may never have even been much of an issue short of travel restrictions

do you wear a mask undertaker

[-:Undertaker:-]

except it doesnt need to "burn itself through the population" since theres a massive focus on a vaccine at the moment

and if you hadnt voted in the current lot of monkeys then coronavirus may never have even been much of an issue short of travel restrictions

Are you saying we should keep society locked down until there's a vaccine, even if that is years/decades away?

you're basically saying we should let people die prematurely because you're selfish

We already let the very elderly who are chronically sick "die prematurely" (as in lose a final few days, weeks or months) as it is clear their health is failing and they are near the end, and that sustaining them for a slightly longer period with intrusive medical interventions is not fair on them in terms of quality of life.

My 89-year old grandfather was offered intrusive respirator/tubes down nose to feed which probably would've kept him alive for a few more days or even weeks, but he sensibly turned it down himself and we as a family did not want this to happen and nor did the Doctor. It's the same with resusitation on the very old - care homes advise you to sign a DNR order as although resusitating them can bring them back, their final weeks/months are then spent with a broken rib cage because the resus process is so brutal on the body. We also instructed the hospital not to resusitate if his heart stopped with the stress of pnuemonia/sepsis on his body.

Much like we already weigh these things up on an individual level, the health and wellbeing of society as a whole must also be included in our judgement.

do you wear a mask undertaker

In Spain I do wear a mask as I feel I have no right to question it given it is not my country.

At home, only around 30% of people in Liverpool were wearing a mask in shops. I mostly did not, nor does my 85 year old Grandfather.

[FlyingJesus]

Choosing not to intubate someone who's already past the point that they can actually survive a condition is not the same thing as refusing to give a shit about lessening the spread of a new strain of virus before people catch it. Not the same at all.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I have just read the Daily Mail comments section and it reflects increasingly what I hear, that more and more people are fed up running from this rather timid virus and aren't going to be following anymore draconian restrictions. Comment after comment saying the same thing. Backbench Tory MPs need to do what they were threatening before they caved the other week, and block this nonsense as the Spanish regional governments are doing.

If people feel scared/at risk/vulnerable then they should be free to choose to shield themselves. But let the rest of us get on with our lives.

Choosing not to intubate someone who's already past the point that they can actually survive a condition is not the same thing as refusing to give a shit about lessening the spread of a new strain of virus before people catch it. Not the same at all.

Do you give a toss about the livelihoods of millions which are being destroyed? Do you give a toss about the businesses that people have built up that are disappearing up in smoke? Do you give a toss about the cancers, heart diseases and other conditions in healthy younger segments of the population that are going undiagnosed and untreated? Do you give a toss about the previously active old people in their twilight years who are wasting away both mentally and in body at home?

Supporters of these lockdown measures still refuse to acknowledge that the virus is now endemic in the population, that's it. There's no point wishing it were not so given that it is and it's a relatively mild disease that most people have no idea they even have until a test tells them they do, for how long are you prepared to lockdown society?

[FlyingJesus]

I've been furloughed since May and don't know how long my job will exist for so yes I do care about those things and am directly affected by them. I do however care more about people not LITERALLY DYING BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE MASKS. You're proving again and again that you have absolutely no compassion for human life, and bringing up new random arguments over and over (because as always you can't stick to one train of thought for more than 2 posts) doesn't help the way you look. You're selfish, you're arrogant, and you're dangerous

[-:Undertaker:-]

A good article tonight in The Sun by Lord Sumption.

https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/128866...avirus-crisis/



"A lockdown does not prevent deaths it only spreads them over a longer period."

I've been furloughed since May and don't know how long my job will exist for so yes I do care about those things and am directly affected by them. I do however care more about people not LITERALLY DYING BECAUSE PEOPLE DON'T LIKE MASKS. You're proving again and again that you have absolutely no compassion for human life, and bringing up new random arguments over and over (because as always you can't stick to one train of thought for more than 2 posts) doesn't help the way you look. You're selfish, you're arrogant, and you're dangerous

Masks have been compulsory in Spain even outside walking alone and Spain has some of the highest virus rates in Europe.

Why will you not tell me how long you're willing to keep subjecting society to draconian measures and lockdowns for?

[FlyingJesus]

Oh good, another new tangent. Which measures do you mean? We don't currently HAVE a lockdown here so you're not making any sense with that one, wearing masks I have no problem with at all as it's a very minor inconvenience if one at all, and distancing rules absolutely make sense in the short term while other solutions are formulated. Whether that's a proper vaccine or just better and clearer restriction methods that take into account actual data (which I don't believe many of the current ones do, it's all a bit guess-and-hope hence people not following guidance properly), something more long-term needs to be put in place. It's interesting that you've assumed I support full lockdowns despite having not said any such thing

[jamiexo]

I've heard about plenty of younger people (younger in this case meaning like 20s) dying from coronavirus. All it takes is having something like asthma to really cause a struggle when partnered with Corona. In that case, a lot of people have asthma, so that would not cause a good mix.

My family and I had/have it, and it was definitely not a good time. I have the stomach flu two years ago and I would do that 3 times over than to deal with Corona. There were a few days where I literally couldn't do anything. My dad ended up having to go to the ER because he has heart disease, and he is only 61. LUCKILY, he is doing better. It's been over a week now, almost two, and we all are still having issues from it, whether that's weakness, or constant coughing.

Definitely not something to downplay.

[dbgtz]

Are you saying we should keep society locked down until there's a vaccine, even if that is years/decades away?

its not years or decades away

We already let the very elderly who are chronically sick "die prematurely" (as in lose a final few days, weeks or months) as it is clear their health is failing and they are near the end, and that sustaining them for a slightly longer period with intrusive medical interventions is not fair on them in terms of quality of life.

My 89-year old grandfather was offered intrusive respirator/tubes down nose to feed which probably would've kept him alive for a few more days or even weeks, but he sensibly turned it down himself and we as a family did not want this to happen and nor did the Doctor. It's the same with resusitation on the very old - care homes advise you to sign a DNR order as although resusitating them can bring them back, their final weeks/months are then spent with a broken rib cage because the resus process is so brutal on the body. We also instructed the hospital not to resusitate if his heart stopped with the stress of pnuemonia/sepsis on his body.

Much like we already weigh these things up on an individual level, the health and wellbeing of society as a whole must also be included in our judgement.

ridiculous comparison

In Spain I do wear a mask as I feel I have no right to question it given it is not my country.

At home, only around 30% of people in Liverpool were wearing a mask in shops. I mostly did not, nor does my 85 year old Grandfather.

nice to know how selfish you are with your made up statistics
even if you dont believe it helps, on the off chance it does there is 0 reason to not wear one given how little effort it takes

Do you give a toss about the livelihoods of millions which are being destroyed? Do you give a toss about the businesses that people have built up that are disappearing up in smoke?

i dont think youre one to make a point about giving a toss about businesses

Do you give a toss about the cancers, heart diseases and other conditions in healthy younger segments of the population that are going undiagnosed and untreated?

Part of the reason for locking down in the first place is to limit the burden on the healthcare system - that in itself will impact these treatments

Do you give a toss about the previously active old people in their twilight years who are wasting away both mentally and in body at home?

you say that as if they can't leave their home or do anything at all

[-:Undertaker:-]

I've heard about plenty of younger people (younger in this case meaning like 20s) dying from coronavirus. All it takes is having something like asthma to really cause a struggle when partnered with Corona. In that case, a lot of people have asthma, so that would not cause a good mix.

My family and I had/have it, and it was definitely not a good time. I have the stomach flu two years ago and I would do that 3 times over than to deal with Corona. There were a few days where I literally couldn't do anything. My dad ended up having to go to the ER because he has heart disease, and he is only 61. LUCKILY, he is doing better. It's been over a week now, almost two, and we all are still having issues from it, whether that's weakness, or constant coughing.

Definitely not something to downplay.

Those with severe underlying health conditions should of course have the option to stay at home and supermarkets delivering food/health services and so on should be giving them priority. However, we cannot lock down the entire population and subject them to draconian laws over a disease that mainly kills people who are over 80 years old, are chronically sick (often with dementia) and are in their final days/weeks/months anyway.

I also had a terrible flu between Christmas and New Year which I suspect was Coronavirus. But sickness is part of life.

its not years or decades away

How do you know? As far as I am aware no vaccine has been developed for any Coronavirus.

HIV has been researched for years yet no vaccination exists, and the common flu continues to evade us.

nice to know how selfish you are with your made up statistics
even if you dont believe it helps, on the off chance it does there is 0 reason to not wear one given how little effort it takes

What I decide to wear and what chances I take are a matter for me, and not an overzealous state.

i dont think youre one to make a point about giving a toss about businesses

The lockdown recession is an actual real recession, not an imaginary one like the one you thought we'd have if we left the EU.

Part of the reason for locking down in the first place is to limit the burden on the healthcare system - that in itself will impact these treatments you say that as if they can't leave their home or do anything at all

Now that the burden is lifted and hospitals have remained empty - including Nightingale hospitals, why is Britain now facing another partial lockdown?

The *only* reason for a lockdown was to prepare the NHS. A lockdown does not stop a virus - this virus is going to work its way through the population.