Tories = Bad?

[Dean]

I just had a nice phone call to my granddad as me and my Mum really don't know who to vote for tomorrow, we're currently in a Conservative area and it's horrible.

I'm not really good with politics, but I still believe that I have to live in the UK and I want to live in a good society that the policies are agreeable with my opinions.

My Granddad claims that the Tories are for people with money, they only care for those with money and they cut fees in education and public places to get more money for themselves. Also, Conservatives landed us in a recession in 1990 with 3 million unemployed he said!

Just wondering, what are your views on Conservative party, and do you agree with him? I think he's been alive since WW2 so yeh, I think he knows most parties.

He also said, that he's going to vote Labour tomorrow because they're for working people, and Tories want to cut his pension etc.

BY THE WAY; Can we please not like have a complete argument, I just want to know some views on Conservatism/Labour. UKIP/BNP people, you can discuss but please don't bring these parties into this discussion, it's only about Conservatives and Labour. :)

[-:Undertaker:-]

The argument that the tories are for the rich and Labour are for the working class is utter rubbish. It was Labour who brought the country to its knees in the 1970's in which the military nearly had to take control as the situtation was so grave.

Labour are for higher taxes, bigger state and for the unions, true in their time they have done some good, the minimum wage and some other safety nets they enforced after World War II in order to protect citzens from post-war decline.

I'm afraid though that the argument that the tories are for the rich is utter rubbish, may of been true in the 1880's but not from around 1900 onwards. Margaret Thatcher, a Conservative Prime Minister was the Prime Minister who gave MILLIONS their first chance to buy their own house - if thats not helping those not well off then I don't know what is.

[Dean]

Hmmm, do you agree that Gordon Brown stepped in at the wrong time? Seeing as when he stepped in, there was foot and mouth disease etc.

Also, how come that I live in a Conservative area and yet nothing gets done, like my Mum says, all these parties claim they'll do stuff but it never happens.

[Caution]

My Mum said they privatised everything, closed mines and workers were left with nothing. Probably because she knew miners personally and they were ****** basically. I'm not aware on it either though, I look at each parties policies and think most are good but then there's things they don't mention so I don't really know what to think.

[Dean]

This about Conservatives?

[Caution]

Yes, it is.

[Dean]

Yeh, thats what my Mum and Granddad said. 3 million left unemployed!

[-:Undertaker:-]

My Mum said they privatised everything, closed mines and workers were left with nothing. Probably because she knew miners personally and they were ****** basically. I'm not aware on it either though, I look at each parties policies and think most are good but then there's things they don't mention so I don't really know what to think.

Privatised everything because they were making no money and were being subsidised. Why do you not understand that something that is not making a profit has to be closed for the good of the country, especially when the country was on its knees and had to appeal to the IMF just to stay afloat. The country was on its knees, dead bodies rotting in the morgues because there was no one to bury them, mass strikes across all public sectors, garbage being piled up on the streets and unions constantly calling strikes regardless of whether or not the workers agreed with them.


Yeh, thats what my Mum and Granddad said. 3 million left unemployed!

At the moment the unemployment figure is just under three million and is still rising, I notice how you are also not mentioning the 1970's with the winter of discontent which was the fault of Labour and was one thousand times worse than a recession.

[Janeisntpleased]

At the moment the unemployment figure is just under three million and is still rising, I notice how you are also not mentioning the 1970's with the winter of discontent which was the fault of Labour and was one thousand times worse than a recession.

he clearly said at the beginning of the thread he doesnt really know much about politics, so that's probably why he isnt mentioning it.

christ, getting a bit too into it me thinks.

[Dean]

Yeh, politics can get you intro trouble sometimes. I only know limited knowledge lols.

Anyway, I'm off to bed and I'm going to vote Labour tomorrow, so will my Mum lol. NIGHT :)

Enjoy local council electionss..

[Jordy]

Well your Granddad is a complete moron if I'm honest because Labour has been cutting his pension in the Budget for the last few years, it's virtually worthless these days. For pensioners I see elections as no brainers as Labour just keep cutting away at pensions year after year.

http://www.thisislondon.co.uk/standard-business/article-23679889-details/Another+Brown+Budget,+another+pensions+raid/article.do
And that's just this years budget, in past years it's been much worse.

[ifuseekamy]

New Labour made us have to pay thousands of pounds in fees for university again. The two parties aren't actually that different anymore though.

[FlyingJesus]

He also said, that he's going to vote Labour tomorrow because they're for working people, and Tories want to cut his pension etc.

This is the most important part of the entire thread. He's gone on about the Conservative past and unemployment, but really it comes down to the fact that he stands to lose under a Conservative government. If he was a young high earner he'd want to get rid of the Labour government who take away from the more successful people to pay off society's losers - people generally vote based on their own circumstances, not because they truly believe in a cause.

[Ramones]

Socialsm ftw :rolleyes:

[Dean]

The argument that the tories are for the rich and Labour are for the working class is utter rubbish. It was Labour who brought the country to its knees in the 1970's in which the military nearly had to take control as the situtation was so grave.

Labour are for higher taxes, bigger state and for the unions, true in their time they have done some good, the minimum wage and some other safety nets they enforced after World War II in order to protect citzens from post-war decline.

I'm afraid though that the argument that the tories are for the rich is utter rubbish, may of been true in the 1880's but not from around 1900 onwards. Margaret Thatcher, a Conservative Prime Minister was the Prime Minister who gave MILLIONS their first chance to buy their own house - if thats not helping those not well off then I don't know what is.

You didn't talk about the downside to Maggie giving away the chance of millions getting a house.

[-:Undertaker:-]

You didn't talk about the downside to Maggie giving away the chance of millions getting a house.

The downside to helping millions upon millions of the poorest of our society the chance to own their own house, meaning when they are older they can remain independant rather than rely fully on the state?

The downside is a shortage of council housing today, but that is not the fault of the Thatcher government, that is the fault of this goverment, a Labour government which has failed to build more social housing.

Jordy is right, Labour has always believed in their core belief, that everyone should be equal and that does not add up. If someone in earning over 100,000+ or a even higher wage, have built that business up/worked their way up in that business all their life, what right has a government to take 50% of their wage or even 80% (as in the 1970's under Labour) - it goes to show that Labour do not value hard work.

That leads me on to my next point, as in the 1970's, no company would invest here because 80% of their wages would be taken by the state and taxes on business were so high so they would not open businesses here, therefore meaning there were no jobs. Margaret Thatcher, Conservative, corrected it.

[Dean]

The downside to helping millions upon millions of the poorest of our society the chance to own their own house, meaning when they are older they can remain independant rather than rely fully on the state?

The downside is a shortage of council housing today, but that is not the fault of the Thatcher government, that is the fault of this goverment, a Labour government which has failed to build more social housing.

Jordy is right, Labour has always believed in their core belief, that everyone should be equal and that does not add up. If someone in earning over 100,000+ or a even higher wage, have built that business up/worked their way up in that business all their life, what right has a government to take 50% of their wage or even 80% (as in the 1970's under Labour) - it goes to show that Labour do not value hard work.

That leads me on to my next point, as in the 1970's, no company would invest here because 80% of their wages would be taken by the state and taxes on business were so high so they would not open businesses here, therefore meaning there were no jobs. Margaret Thatcher, Conservative, corrected it.

Margaret Thatcher only gave millions the chance to get their own house for her own benefit. All for money.

She set interest rates up to 15%, which no one had ever seen.\

She destroyed the unions and created the poll tax.

She is a cruel woman, and she's very against working class people. Tories are all for making money, so if you're a millionaire, vote Conservative. But if you can't spare change, don't even bother.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Margaret Thatcher only gave millions the chance to get their own house for her own benefit. All for money.

She set interest rates up to 15%, which no one had ever seen.\

She destroyed the unions and created the poll tax.

She is a cruel woman, and she's very against working class people. Tories are all for making money, so if you're a millionaire, vote Conservative. But if you can't spare change, don't even bother.

No, she did it for the benefit of the state and the whole country, rather than continuing the decline our country was suffering, the state was virtually bankrupt. If Labour had done this and given the poor you would claim it was a excellent move and that the nasty Conservatives would never help the poor, you cannot have it both ways.


--------

Interest rates surged for a very short period because the world and Britain had decided to change the way money was valued. The whole world experience higher interest rates for a very short period of time, which incidently reached over 11% under the previous Labour government.


--------

She destroyed the unions because the unions were in control of the country, the winter of discontent was caused by the unions, the unions forced workers to strike even if the worker did not agree with it. You seem to like the idea of living in a winter of discontent (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Winter_of_Discontent)with the country in debt and on its knees, with blackouts a common sight, the country appealing to the IMF, dead bodies rotting in the morgues and garbe piled high on the streets.


--------

Poll tax was introduced because the previous system was unfair, below are two examples of the old system and the poll tax system.

Before Poll Tax
If you and your brother/or a friend shared the same property but you owned the property, you would have to pay tax for both of you and your brother/friend and anyone else who shared the flat who was eligable to pay tax, therefore even though all of you used local services you would be paying for them.

Poll Tax
Poll tax fixed the above problem by making the system fair so that you paid for yourself, so you would pay for your own tax and your brother/friend would pay his/her own tax.

You tell me which is fair.


--------


You have been taught to believe this vile, socialist hate; yet cannot discuss your cause because you appear to have no understanding of the subject, only what your grandad throws out at you and you repeat it to me and this forum. Time after time I have confronted your claims with counter claims and you come out with even more to dodge the claim.

I have given you an example of how she gave the poor their first oppertunity to buy a house yet you dismiss it as if she personally benefits from them buying houses, no she did not. You are hell bent on hating Margaret Thatcher yet cannot back up your claims/views because I know they are not your views, they are family/friends views that you have been taught to believe/have picked up.

[-Liam]

Tories put 3 million in unemployment in the 90's. Nuff said.

[FlyingJesus]

Tories are all for making money, so if you're a millionaire, vote Conservative. But if you can't spare change, don't even bother.

I imagine this is your response to the fact that Conservatives tend to prefer having tax rates for everyone pretty similar rather than taking 50% of high earners' wages and letting poor people not pay nearly as much. What that essentially boils down to is people who have worked hard and gotten themselves to a position where they earn a large amount of money then have to give half of it away in order to let unemployed and lazy people have a comfortable life. Fun times

[Mentor]

Any political party = bad.

Make your mind up on issues and vote for who best supports those issues reguadless of party. Voteing for a party just becuse its the one you always voted for is stupid (its how bush got in for a second term afterall) o.o

[Immenseman]

now the tories control devon they beat lib dem noooooo i think bnp beat labour or summet :S lol

[ifuseekamy]

Margaret Thatcher only gave millions the chance to get their own house for her own benefit. All for money.

She set interest rates up to 15%, which no one had ever seen.\

She destroyed the unions and created the poll tax.

She is a cruel woman, and she's very against working class people. Tories are all for making money, so if you're a millionaire, vote Conservative. But if you can't spare change, don't even bother.
The ironic problem lies in the fact that working-class people will complain that Labour taxes them to give benefits to others. You can't have your cake and eat it too; unless there is a free market then every social class will be taxed to provide for the next tier down.

[Ramones]

I imagine this is your response to the fact that Conservatives tend to prefer having tax rates for everyone pretty similar rather than taking 50% of high earners' wages and letting poor people not pay nearly as much. What that essentially boils down to is people who have worked hard and gotten themselves to a position where they earn a large amount of money then have to give half of it away in order to let unemployed and lazy people have a comfortable life. Fun times

Abit of a generalisation don't you think? To be classed as unemployed you need to be actively seeking employment, there are some people that work the system and are lazy and collect their benefits, but alot fewer than people seem to think. And anyway, will having a progressive tax system or not, have an effect on the benefits for the unemployed people? i doubt it, not a significant one anyway.
You make it sound easy for 30 million people to get themselves into a position of earning over 50k just by working hard. When in reality it's blatantly not true. What about people who haven't had a great education and upbringing, manage to get an average job earning 20k a year, do they deserved to be taxed as much? I can't see much of an argument for not having a progressive tax system. But maybe i'm too much of a socialist :eusa_whis

[-:Undertaker:-]

Abit of a generalisation don't you think? To be classed as unemployed you need to be actively seeking employment, there are some people that work the system and are lazy and collect their benefits, but alot fewer than people seem to think. And anyway, will having a progressive tax system or not, have an effect on the benefits for the unemployed people? i doubt it, not a significant one anyway.
You make it sound easy for 30 million people to get themselves into a position of earning over 50k just by working hard. When in reality it's blatantly not true. What about people who haven't had a great education and upbringing, manage to get an average job earning 20k a year, do they deserved to be taxed as much? I can't see much of an argument for not having a progressive tax system. But maybe i'm too much of a socialist :eusa_whis

That is the way the world works, I can't be a doctor just because I want to, if i'm not clever enough then I can't become a doctor, very simple. Socialism has always failed and the last remains of it are failing, if socialism is so much "for the people" then why did millions in the USSR starve to death and suffer genocide at their socialist leaders, why are millions dying in North Korea at the hands of their socialist leaders compared to South Korea which is one of the best economies in the world, why did millions starve to death under Chairman Mao in the PROC? - because it does not work.

To add to the point Tom made, obviously all Labour supporters are definetly not criminals, but think about this; if you had to guess the political party most prisoners/criminals supported, do you really think they would support the Conservatives over Labour? - I don't think so. :P

[Hecktix]

I'm pleased you chose to vote Labour.

Your Grandfather is right, Labour are very much for the working man and the Conservative Party are very much for the rich man.

For instance, David Cameron has said he will not continue with Labour's Child Benefits act, which is going to leave a lot of families within Britain in the crap.

He's also said he isn't going to commit to the Winter Fuel Allowance for pensioners.

Labour made, in my opinion, the biggest step forward for the working class in political history by introducing the minimum wage. Just look at the weekly figures in my signature to see the effect of this initiative brought in by Labour.

Nobody can say that the Conservative Party will do a better job in Government than Labour, history would suggest that this will not be the case.

Without mentioning the Iraqi war, tell me what has been so bad about living in this country in the past twelve years, unless you are an upper class citizen earning ridiculous amounts of money, you aren't going to complain.

At the end of the day the world is in recession, however the UK ain't doing too bad in comparison to the majority of Europe and most of the US. Obama turned to Gordon Brown for advice.

Labour need to be in power as we need Gordon Brown's ecomonic skill.

My local council was taken over by the Conservatives a few years ago.. since this change I have noticed more and more pointless but expensive changes to our City, including a lot of sculptures etc costing millions of of the tax payers english pounds in comparison to free events etc for families, for instance we've always had a "Waterfront Festival" at our Marina, until last year the Council said they couldn't afford it.

People say Gordon Brown isn't a good Prime Minister, well look how well he's dealt with the crap thrown at him this week.

I say if he doesn't crack under the pressure, he'll take Labour through to May 2010, hold an election and walk it.

Britain needs Labour.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I'm pleased you chose to vote Labour.

Your Grandfather is right, Labour are very much for the working man and the Conservative Party are very much for the rich man.

For instance, David Cameron has said he will not continue with Labour's Child Benefits act, which is going to leave a lot of families within Britain in the crap.

He's also said he isn't going to commit to the Winter Fuel Allowance for pensioners.

Labour made, in my opinion, the biggest step forward for the working class in political history by introducing the minimum wage. Just look at the weekly figures in my signature to see the effect of this initiative brought in by Labour.

Nobody can say that the Conservative Party will do a better job in Government than Labour, history would suggest that this will not be the case.

Without mentioning the Iraqi war, tell me what has been so bad about living in this country in the past twelve years, unless you are an upper class citizen earning ridiculous amounts of money, you aren't going to complain.

At the end of the day the world is in recession, however the UK ain't doing too bad in comparison to the majority of Europe and most of the US. Obama turned to Gordon Brown for advice.

Labour need to be in power as we need Gordon Brown's ecomonic skill.

My local council was taken over by the Conservatives a few years ago.. since this change I have noticed more and more pointless but expensive changes to our City, including a lot of sculptures etc costing millions of of the tax payers english pounds in comparison to free events etc for families, for instance we've always had a "Waterfront Festival" at our Marina, until last year the Council said they couldn't afford it.

People say Gordon Brown isn't a good Prime Minister, well look how well he's dealt with the crap thrown at him this week.

I say if he doesn't crack under the pressure, he'll take Labour through to May 2010, hold an election and walk it.

Britain needs Labour.

Anyone can spend money they do not have, but at the end of the day it will have to be paid off at some point.

History shows James Callahgans' government crippled by unions, socialism on the rise, the military preparing to stage a coup because it got so bad, the country having to go cap in hand to the IMF, the winter of discontent in which dead bodies rotted in the morgues, garbage was piled high on the streets, business left the country in droves - the country was near COLLAPSE.

History then shows the election of Margaret Thatcher which sorted out the far too powerful unions, the collapse of socialism in the United Kingdom, the end of post-war decline, Britain out of debt, people becoming wealthier of all backgrounds, the closure of industry which was losing the country vast sums of money - the country recovered as one of the BEST economies in the world.

If Labour are so against tory policies such as council housing being offered cheaply to tennants & the privatisation of services and business then why have they not reversed these changes?

[Hecktix]

Anyone can spend money they do not have, but at the end of the day it will have to be paid off at some point.

History shows James Callahgans' government crippled by unions, socialism on the rise, the military preparing to stage a coup because it got so bad, the country having to go cap in hand to the IMF, the winter of discontent in which dead bodies rotted in the morgues, garbage was piled high on the streets, business left the country in droves - the country was near COLLAPSE.

History then shows the election of Margaret Thatcher which sorted out the far too powerful unions, the collapse of socialism in the United Kingdom, the end of post-war decline, Britain out of debt, people becoming wealthier of all backgrounds, the closure of industry which was losing the country vast sums of money - the country recovered as one of the BEST economies in the world.

If Labour are so against tory policies such as council housing being offered cheaply to tennants & the privatisation of services and business then why have they not reversed these changes?

Labour are for the people.
Some of the policies implemented by the Conservatives were liked by the people... therefore why would Labour change these?

At the end of the day, without mentioning Iraq tell me what has been bad about living in this country for the past 12 years?

So come on then, what about the current affairs you know the little thing that may be called the worldwide recession... which country is dealing with it well? Oh sorry, would that be Britain? Oh.. and which political party is in charge during this? Who happens to be leading Britain through a time when the entire world is facing economic disaster whilst Britain really hasn't suffered too bad.

Tell me Cameron & cronies would have done it better?

[-:Undertaker:-]

Labour are for the people.
Some of the policies implemented by the Conservatives were liked by the people... therefore why would Labour change these?

At the end of the day, without mentioning Iraq tell me what has been bad about living in this country for the past 12 years?

So come on then, what about the current affairs you know the little thing that may be called the worldwide recession... which country is dealing with it well? Oh sorry, would that be Britain? Oh.. and which political party is in charge during this? Who happens to be leading Britain through a time when the entire world is facing economic disaster whilst Britain really hasn't suffered too bad.

Tell me Cameron & cronies would have done it better?

How are socialists and Labour for the people when you look at 70s Britain, North Korea, the USSR and the PROC under Chairman Mao?

In the words of Margaret Thatcher, would you rather the poor be poorer?

In the past 12 years;

Labour have surrended more powers to the European Union.
Labour have mounted up a debt for our country into billions/trillions.
Labour refuse to cut spending despite large debt levels.
Labour have discouraged business with EU rules and regulations being imposed.
Labour have no control over our immigration despite what they say.
Labour and Gordon Brown continue to give away billions of taxpayers money to countries such as Pakistan, India and China despite our country being in large levels of debt.
Labour has raided pension funds making them even more unstable.
Labour sold a vast sum of our gold stocks while the gold was at a 25 year low.
Labour has refused to peel back the Thatcher reforms they so hated yet still claim Margaret Thatcher was for just the rich.
Labour has introduced a CCTV type state which many former Soviet citzens have claimed is worse than that of what the USSR was.
Labour has increased tax year by year, taxing the families of this country to the hilt.
Labour has lost control of the criminal justice system, with murderers being released after 10 years or even lower.
Labour has failed to build more prisons meaning dangerous criminals are being let out on our streets because there is no space left.
Labour has introduced political correctness to pathetic levels.
Labour has favoured the criminals rather than the victims in crime.
Labour has nationalied the banks yet the banks are still refusing to lend our money to our businesses.

[jam666]

I've said this countless times before and i respect other peoples view however in this case im afraid i cant.

We have suffered since 1997 under the rule of a Labour government so after all this time howcome there is still a minority of people not wanting a change?

The Conservatives are NOT for rich middle class people, they are for EVERYONE so please dont start saying labour is for the working class and the Conservatives are for the middle class as this argument has no basis. You might say about the introduction of the minimum wage, whilst a fair argument in reality the minimum wage is NOT enough to live on and it actually encourages people to NOT work as they they feel they will be better off on it. Whilst true, if taxes were not so high, people would be encouraged to work.

What other things have Labour done for the country? lets see....

Who is the man who sold all of our gold reserves whilst gold prices were at a record low?

Which chancellor continues to raise taxes every annual budget?

Which party makes funds available for councils to knock down and rebuild perfectly decent houses for them to get wrecked again in a matter of years?

Which party will not keep promises such as a referendum on the EU?

Which party has left this country with one of the worst debt records in the history of the UK?

Which party had the sense to spend spend spend when the times were good and not save one single penny?

Which party is more lenient on crime and immigration as current estimates are way off as there is simply far too many immigrants who have no purpose being in the UK? (im all for people who come here for protection or work etc but not illegal immigrants)

Which party wants to cut A&E and maternity services?

Which party burdens businesses with Corporate taxes and lacks enterprise leadership in government?

I could go on and on.... but i dont see how many more points need to be discussed about as to why Labour is BAD for our country.

This is why i vote Conservative.

[Hecktix]

What other things have Labour done for the country? lets see....

Who is the man who sold all of our gold reserves whilst gold prices were at a record low?

Everyone makes mistakes, I'm sure Mr Brown regrets this.

Which chancellor continues to raise taxes every annual budget?

Inflation effects tax too, any Government would do this.

Which party makes funds available for councils to knock down and rebuild perfectly decent houses for them to get wrecked again in a matter of years?

There are no Labour councils within the UK.
If the Conservative Councils choose to do this... so be it.

Which party will not keep promises such as a referendum on the EU?

Who knows more about how to run a country.. the Government, or the people? I believe the Government think it is beneficial for this country to be in the EU, don't see the tories screaming get out of the EU??

Which party has left this country with one of the worst debt records in the history of the UK?

One of the worst yes. Another of the worst came in 1990 under Conservative rule, 1 - 1 if you ask me.

Which party had the sense to spend spend spend when the times were good and not save one single penny?

What do you mean by this?

Which party is more lenient on crime and immigration as current estimates are way off as there is simply far too many immigrants who have no purpose being in the UK? (im all for people who come here for protection or work etc but not illegal immigrants)

Pretty sure the Government ain't fully supportive of illegal immigrants either, hence them being illegal and they are doing everything they can to remove these immigrants. However there are more pressing services to pay for rather than the immigration service. We have enough space to keep them here for now, they get deported eventually or they'll obtain citizenship and get a job? Most of the illegal immigrants want to work anyway they just have to manage to obtain citizenship.

Which party wants to cut A&E and maternity services?

Which party has strong feelings against free healthcare?

Which party burdens businesses with Corporate taxes and lacks enterprise leadership in government?

How can you say that Labour lack enterprise leadership...

I could go on and on.... but i dont see how many more points need to be discussed about as to why Labour is BAD for our country.

This is why i vote Conservative.

How would the Conservatives have gone about dealing with the recession...

[jam666]

Everyone makes mistakes, I'm sure Mr Brown regrets this.

Im sure everyone does but it was a highly irresponsible and irrational decision to make.

Inflation effects tax too, any Government would do this.

Whilst true, No government would continue to waste money that could help reduce taxes by the form of indentity cards for example.

There are no Labour councils within the UK.
If the Conservative Councils choose to do this... so be it.

I did not say that there was any Labour councils in the UK but isnt it a wonder why not? i simply stated that the government (labour party) makes funds available and widely encourages new housing even if it mean demolishing exisitng properties which are perfectly fine. Yet another waste of money.

Who knows more about how to run a country.. the Government, or the people? I believe the Government think it is beneficial for this country to be in the EU, don't see the tories screaming get out of the EU??

This is a funny issue. Firstly, we are in a democracy not a government so surely the people have a right to voice their opinion? secondly the tories have agreed to hold a referendum if they get elected before the lisbon treaty is signed which is one of the only reasons why gordon brown wont stand down as he wants to sign this silly little treaty.

One of the worst yes. Another of the worst came in 1990 under Conservative rule, 1 - 1 if you ask me.

The conservatives left government with one of the best debt records this country has ever seen.

What do you mean by this?

A large proportion of other countries chose to save money during the economic good times for example Austrailia. However what did we do? continue to spend. We didnt even save one single penny.

Pretty sure the Government ain't fully supportive of illegal immigrants either, hence them being illegal and they are doing everything they can to remove these immigrants. However there are more pressing services to pay for rather than the immigration service. We have enough space to keep them here for now, they get deported eventually or they'll obtain citizenship and get a job? Most of the illegal immigrants want to work anyway they just have to manage to obtain citizenship.

I cant think of anything more important than to sort out illegal immigrants as they are a drain on our resources. They take our benefits our housing and our jobs.

Which party has strong feelings against free healthcare?

Definately not The Conservatives. Here are some of their policys regarding the NHS.



We will always provide the funding the NHS needs and are committed to real increases in health spending
We will scrap Labour’s plans to cut A&E and maternity services, which are not supported by evidence that patient access and care will be improved, so that patients have access to high-quality services at their local hospital
We will protect family doctor services by opposing Labour’s plans to impose impersonal "polyclinics" at the expense of local GP surgeries
We will make money available for 45,000 more single rooms in the NHS over five years, almost doubling their current number. This will mean every patient going into hospital for planned care can have a single room if they want one
We will reform the way drugs are priced so that all new treatments that are clinically effective are made available, ending the situation whereby cancer drugs that are routinely available in the rest of Europe and not provided in this country


How can you say that Labour lack enterprise leadership...

It goes to show that they lack enterprise leadership when they have to bring in Alan Sugar to help.

In regards to how the Conservatives would of went on about the recession, they certainly would not continue to spend massive amounts of money the country doesnt have. Current estimates suggests that it could take up to 2030 for the debt to be paid off. However what has labour done? set targets for spending HUGE amounts of money the country just doesnt have. If things continue we will have to go begging on our knees asking for money which no one would want to see.

[Lysine]

BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY The Best way forward

[jam666]

BRITISH NATIONAL PARTY The Best way forward

Definately Not.

Im 100% sure that you and everyone else in this country would not want to be lead under a racist, incriminating, manipulative and lying dictatorship as that is what the situation would be if they ever got into power. (which they will not as they dont even hold a seat as an MP)

BNP love to lie to try and persuade people to vote for them. Infact just the other week an image that they used to advertise "British Jobs for British People" didnt even include british people on the image. Instead they were people from Portland, Oregon USA as the BNP had stolen their images without their consent meaning that a law suit could be filed against the BNP. Some of the people involved stated that the BNP makes them feel "sick" as they have had their images shamefully advertised for an irresponsible cause.

As well as this, the BNP are mainly a one issue party and that lies with Immigration. They are highly racist, even though the majority of them denie this, a large proportion of people believe this to be true.

Everything about the BNP is very un-professional. I remember a few days ago i was watching a party election broadcast and this time it just so happened to be for the BNP. I could not stop laughing. Shoddy camera work, un-clear voices and just boring general chitter-chatter. Its not what I would expect a party who wanted to be elected would do.

[FlyingJesus]

Abit of a generalisation don't you think? To be classed as unemployed you need to be actively seeking employment, there are some people that work the system and are lazy and collect their benefits, but alot fewer than people seem to think. And anyway, will having a progressive tax system or not, have an effect on the benefits for the unemployed people? i doubt it, not a significant one anyway.
You make it sound easy for 30 million people to get themselves into a position of earning over 50k just by working hard. When in reality it's blatantly not true. What about people who haven't had a great education and upbringing, manage to get an average job earning 20k a year, do they deserved to be taxed as much? I can't see much of an argument for not having a progressive tax system. But maybe i'm too much of a socialist :eusa_whis

I didn't generalise, tax money does go to unemployed people. It may go elsewhere too, but it definitely does go to the unemployed and it's clear just by looking around that a lot of people cheat and abuse the benefits system. I don't by any means believe that it's easy to earn over 50k, I don't think either of my parents earn that much (definitely not my mother, my father might be close but not sure) but yes I'd say that whether you earn 10k or 100k you should be taxed the same - that isn't to say you lose the same figure, it means you pay the same proportion of your pay packet. If you can't see that punishing people for doing well for themselves is a bad thing then I'm not sure what moral or economic grounding you have for this.


Your Grandfather is right, Labour are very much for the working man and the Conservative Party are very much for the rich man.

Not true. Labour may put more emphasis on helping the working class but this just means they aren't helping the whole country - reverse classism if you will.


Nobody can say that the Conservative Party will do a better job in Government than Labour, history would suggest that this will not be the case.

Not true. Historically we have had a Conservative government for the majority of the time that government has existed. It only seems otherwise to us because from 1997 onwards we've had a Labour government and I don't imagine many of us will have had much political knowledge or memory before '97.

I don't support the Conservative party as such but I am in theory a conservative libertarian (look up Robert Nozick for much of those beliefs if you want) so to say that a conservative view only works for the rich is certainly in my eyes very wrong.

[Ramones]

I cant think of anything more important than to sort out illegal immigrants as they are a drain on our resources. They take our benefits our housing and our jobs.


Wow you sound like you should be supporting bnp with that kinda attitude. What about the immigrant doctors and nurses? the cleaners and people with crappy jobs we don't want to do? the entrepreneurs that invest in our country? They're hardly a drain on our resources are they?

I believe our economy would be an epic failure (alot worse than it has been over the past 15 years) without the immigration we've experienced. They take our houses? Since when have we had a mass shortage of houses, if anything they've helped keep the market healthy pushing up prices, aswell as pushing up wages especially in cities.
The percentage of immigrants claiming benefits as a proportion to UK citizens claiming benefits is very small. Immigrants contribute so much more to our economy than they do drain it.

[FlyingJesus]

You're confusing honest immigration with illegal immigrants. Don't do that.

[jam666]

Wow you sound like you should be supporting bnp with that kinda attitude. What about the immigrant doctors and nurses? the cleaners and people with crappy jobs we don't want to do? the entrepreneurs that invest in our country? They're hardly a drain on our resources are they?

I believe our economy would be an epic failure (alot worse than it has been over the past 15 years) without the immigration we've experienced. They take our houses? Since when have we had a mass shortage of houses, if anything they've helped keep the market healthy pushing up prices, aswell as pushing up wages especially in cities.
The percentage of immigrants claiming benefits as a proportion to UK citizens claiming benefits is very small. Immigrants contribute so much more to our economy than they do drain it.

I am in no way, shape or form supportive of the BNP if you read further up the thread you will of seen my statement on the BNP and ILLEGAL immigration. I am entirely for people who come here to work and contribute to the economy just not those who come here and do nothing at all to contribute except take houses and benefits.

How can you say we are not in a housing shortage? The UK is over populated at this moment in time as we are one of the most densely populated countrys in europe. Plus please explain to me the 3 million people waiting for a council house?

[Technologic]

When the working class starts voting tory then labour really have have gone wrong somewhere.

[jam666]

When the working class starts voting tory then labour really have have gone wrong somewhere.

Indeed, Labour has obviously being wrecking this country since they first came into power in 1997. However The conservatives are not just for rich middle class citizens so please dont assume this as they are indeed for EVERYONE.

[Nli.]

I can't be bothered to read through all of this, but didn't Margret Thatcher / Conservatives start all that trouble with the Miners Strike in the 70's?
So from where I'm standing so far the Tories are getting the blame for everything (near enough) in this thread?

[FlyingJesus]

Yes you're quite right, money was never an issue for anyone before the 70s

[-:Undertaker:-]

I can't be bothered to read through all of this, but didn't Margret Thatcher / Conservatives start all that trouble with the Miners Strike in the 70's?
So from where I'm standing so far the Tories are getting the blame for everything (near enough) in this thread?

Margaret Thatcher was only elected halfway through 1979, you are confusing her premiership with that of Labours James Callaghan, possibly the worst Prime Minister we ever had.

There were protests during Thatcher which she ultimatley won against those who waged the protests, who were just union leaders such as Arthur Scargill and Derek Hatton who had alligences to partys such as the Communist Party of Great Britain and various other Socialist partys.

The two of them were complete and utter loons who wanted some sort of socialist/communist revolution to take place here, meaning right now if they had had their way we'd be flying not the British flag, but a communist flag. That would also mean right now you would be living in poverty, we would be allies with countries such as North Korea and Cuba rather than NATO and our monarchy would be long gone.

Tom is right, money wasn't an issue during the 1970's because there was none.

[leah]

Tories > Labour

[Nli.]

Margaret Thatcher was only elected halfway through 1979, you are confusing her premiership with that of Labours James Callaghan, possibly the worst Prime Minister we ever had.

There were protests during Thatcher which she ultimatley won against those who waged the protests, who were just union leaders such as Arthur Scargill and Derek Hatton who had alligences to partys such as the Communist Party of Great Britain and various other Socialist partys.

The two of them were complete and utter loons who wanted some sort of socialist/communist revolution to take place here, meaning right now if they had had their way we'd be flying not the British flag, but a communist flag. That would also mean right now you would be living in poverty, we would be allies with countries such as North Korea and Cuba rather than NATO and our monarchy would be long gone.

Tom is right, money wasn't an issue during the 1970's because there was none.
I guess so, but there was also another Strike in the 1980's. But I'm not too sure what started/finished that. So I won't be saying anything.

[-:Undertaker:-]

I guess so, but there was also another Strike in the 1980's. But I'm not too sure what started/finished that. So I won't be saying anything.

That was the strike, a lot of the workers never wanted to strike and supported Margaret Thatcher, hence why she won three terms in office and in the end it wasn't the public who finished her, it was her own party who remain to this day, divided over the EU who brought her down.

If we would of carried on as we did under James Callaghan and Labour then there is no doubt in my mind that we would be a very poor nation right now, and most likely would have the hammer/sickle/star on our flag. Margaret Thatcher saved this country and defeated the unions which were in control of the government - the public don't elect unions, we elect a government and expect the government to govern, not the unions.

When I mean the flag flying, I mean over Parliament & Buckingham Palace, and i'm pretty sure i'd rather have the British flag flying over Parliament & Buckingham Palace rather than the socialist flag.

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