Staff Returning

[Sharon]

(First of all, the people that have done this, don't even go phsyco on me..)

I really dislike the fact when people resign as staff, if it's HRVR or RVR, HxHD or HxHD-SS they can return to their old position straight away. I don't have a problem without them being trialed again without applying but that's unfair. If there is a space free for a senior position then it should be given to a normal staff qho deserves it.

Also, for someone to disappear, then return several months afte does not make sense. The department may of changed by then and for them to step back in to a senior position should not be allowed.

This is just senior positons by the way, or even normal staff - not managers as obviously I see the reasoning behind it.

Also I remember last time this came up, someone mentioned peopel shouldn't be promoted as they don't have the experience... but if people keep returning so high into a department - no one will ever get a promotion nor will there be new staff?

[Mathew]

Also I remember last time this came up, someone mentioned peopel shouldn't be promoted as they don't have the experience... but if people keep returning so high into a department - no one will ever get a promotion nor will there be new staff?
You're suggesting people should be promoted even if they lack the experience? That's not really how things work :P

As it was said many times in the thread just a few weeks ago, everyone makes mistakes, has a bad day or gets annoyed and resigns and Habbox recognises that. If they're the most suitable for the position, let 'em have it. General Management know what they're doing (most of the time anyway :P).

[Slowpoke]

I thought the only way you could return into a senior position was if you had managed the department in question before. Example: someone could only return to the position of Forum Super Moderator if they had reached the position of (Assistant) Forum Manager in the past?

[Callum.]

You're suggesting people should be promoted even if they lack the experience? That's not really how things work :P

As it was said many times in the thread just a few weeks ago, everyone makes mistakes, has a bad day or gets annoyed and resigns and Habbox recognises that. If they're the most suitable for the position, let 'em have it. General Management know what they're doing (most of the time anyway :P).

But in things like HxHD people don't need to have tons of experience as they're not gunna do much different lol. How do you get more experience if you're not given a higher role. It's like jobs, you get more with the more responsibility you have.


That being said, it's a pointless thing to question as the favourites are always let back, just gotta get on with it.

@slowpoke; don't think so. Recursion (good mod) returned as smod the other month then left.

[-Danube-]

If there is a space free for a senior position then it should be given to a normal staff qho deserves it.

What if the person who has returned deserves the position more?

I feel a person should be able to return at a same/higher rank if i know they are the best for the job. I'm not stupid Shaz and i know what this is aimed at and i'm not up for discussing it in public. If you had a problem you should have come straight to me rather than making it public.

Anyway my view on the whole thing is that if there isn't anyone quite ready in the department to take on such a role, then someone external who has been in the department before should be allowed to return.

I mean look at most of General Management, Martin/Oli etc they left as managers and came back at higher ranks? I wasn't bothered as i know they are best for the job. Or are you saying it should have gone to someone else who may not have been ready for the role?

[Matthew]

In my opinion, the best person for the job should always get it, whether they're returning after a month off or being promoted from X position. If they're the best and most suitable for the job, then why should it be given to someone else?

[Samantha]

You're suggesting people should be promoted even if they lack the experience? That's not really how things work :P

As it was said many times in the thread just a few weeks ago, everyone makes mistakes, has a bad day or gets annoyed and resigns and Habbox recognises that. If they're the most suitable for the position, let 'em have it. General Management know what they're doing (most of the time anyway :P).

We aren't talking days though Mathew.


I think that staff who have resigned should understand that they can't just come back in a high position, there are other people suitable for the role.

Mathew, they may not have the experience, however, they get promoted and gain experience through that, the only way you get experience is being in the role in question.


As someone also just said, about you can return to a senior role if you was in a management position in the department, so why is it, that some staff return as one of the lowest levels they can be within the department. For example Roxy916 she returned as a normal event staff but a Senior HxHD staff. I think she should have been senior in both departments. Yes maybe there may not be enough room for a Senior EO and also she may not mind, but some people who haven't been in management positions are returning back at what they were originally?

If they wanted to do that couldn't they just post away for a bit and have a break to see how they feel?

[Callum.]

What if the person who has returned deserves the position more?

I feel a person should be able to return at a same/higher rank if i know they are the best for the job. I'm not stupid Shaz and i know what this is aimed at and i'm not up for discussing it in public. If you had a problem you should have come straight to me rather than making it public.

Anyway my view on the whole thing is that if there isn't anyone quite ready in the department to take on such a role, then someone external who has been in the department before should be allowed to return.

I mean look at most of General Management, Martin/Oli etc they left as managers and came back at higher ranks? I wasn't bothered as i know they are best for the job. Or are you saying it should have gone to someone else who may not have been ready for the role?

the current scenario might be based on your choice but it's obvious she means in general as these things happen all the time, especially in not even important positions, but how can you climb the chain if you're not given the chance lol.

[-Danube-]

It's about whats best for Habbox, it's not always about whats 'Fair'.

I work in retail, not so long ago an ex member of staff returned as a Section Co-ordinator. Does this mean i should kick off saying i've stayed here at work while they have left so i deserve the promotion? No because they need to do whats best for the company.

Although Habbox is not a business or a company i think the way in which its ranks work are very similar and should be treated in such a way.

[Josh]

I'm going to assume this is about:


Kelly-Mate returns as a Head Rare Values Reporter

1. Kelly deserves that
2. They need leaders, after Jord and Kart and even Jamie (I think) resigning, they need more leaders and if they want to bring in someone already experienced with that role to do it; so be it. I have absolutely no issue with that happening.

[Inseriousity.]

It's a rule of mine that if someone resigns and want to come back, they have to start from stratch again. They have to apply when applications open to show they're dedicated and they do actually want to come back (people might want to come back for just the staff title rather than the work which is fair enough I suppose but not exactly helpful :P). The only thing they don't have to do again is a trial. However, despite that, different departments have different requirements. For example, the competitions department is only a small department with small chance of promotion due to only having a manager and assistant manager unlike HxL so it's possible that staff only 'jump up' to the next stage for a number of reasons. It is at the discretion of the department manager and/or AGM of staff (depending on position really).

[Conservative,]

In some ways I agree...

In HxL we have the rule that you can return, but no matter if you were manager or regular DJ, you return as a regular DJ no matter what. But it seems that lately this hasn't been followed strictly...

I don't think bringing seniors back straightaway serves anything but annoy those who have been regulars in the department whilst the other was away, proved their dedication etc. and then get it blown back in their faces.

It is stupid to say "what if no other staff is ready"...because in reality, that would never be the case unless it's a brand new department. There is always 1 staff member who can step up to it.

So really I think that departments should follow the HxL example. If a manager or Senior resigns, they have to be willing to work their way back up if they return.

And GM's as well for that matter. I think it's unfair that people can quit then just return straight back to the top, regardless of how good they were.

It's different if they're asked by Jin (or in managers cases, GMs) but if they just return expecting to get their old position back it's just unfair on other people - who may be better - just to get their position back.

[Zuth]

If people are skilled enough, they should be aloud back, but if there is someone more skilled in the dept as normal staff, they should get the job first. That's my opinion.

[Callum.]

It's a rule of mine that if someone resigns and want to come back, they have to start from stratch again. They have to apply when applications open to show they're dedicated and they do actually want to come back (people might want to come back for just the staff title rather than the work which is fair enough I suppose but not exactly helpful :P). The only thing they don't have to do again is a trial. However, despite that, different departments have different requirements. For example, the competitions department is only a small department with small chance of promotion due to only having a manager and assistant manager unlike HxL so it's possible that staff only 'jump up' to the next stage for a number of reasons. It is at the discretion of the department manager and/or AGM of staff (depending on position really).

You say this everytime a thread like this is made which is why I actually respect you. You're on of the few who get into a decent role and don't change massively into this strange being with power.

[Sharon]

i'm just going to say now, it's not about kelly as she's not the only one as if she was, there's really no need for a feedback thread. i'm just going to say - yes she is one of them, but not the only one. i'm just here saying it as it happens frequently. i have nothing against kelly.

i like inseriousity's post.

[-Danube-]

If people are skilled enough, they should be aloud back, but if there is someone more skilled in the dept as normal staff, they should get the job first. That's my opinion.

This is exactly how i work.

I look for people in the department first, but then if someone is wanting to return i will offer the position to them.

I am not willing to discuss anything about Kellie in this thread.

[scott]

In some ways I agree...

In HxL we have the rule that you can return, but no matter if you were manager or regular DJ, you return as a regular DJ no matter what. But it seems that lately this hasn't been followed strictly...

I don't think bringing seniors back straightaway serves anything but annoy those who have been regulars in the department whilst the other was away, proved their dedication etc. and then get it blown back in their faces.

It is stupid to say "what if no other staff is ready"...because in reality, that would never be the case unless it's a brand new department. There is always 1 staff member who can step up to it.

So really I think that departments should follow the HxL example. If a manager or Senior resigns, they have to be willing to work their way back up if they return.

And GM's as well for that matter. I think it's unfair that people can quit then just return straight back to the top, regardless of how good they were.

It's different if they're asked by Jin (or in managers cases, GMs) but if they just return expecting to get their old position back it's just unfair on other people - who may be better - just to get their position back.

No idea were this came from - the best person for the job will get promoted whether they are staff are not. A few times as well we've had Head DJs who resigned return as senior DJs as they know how habboxlive work and that's what was needed at the time.

Promotions shouldn't really work on how long someones been there as it's certainly not the only thing thought about during someone getting promoted.

[Josh]

In some ways I agree...

In HxL we have the rule that you can return, but no matter if you were manager or regular DJ, you return as a regular DJ no matter what. But it seems that lately this hasn't been followed strictly...

I don't think bringing seniors back straightaway serves anything but annoy those who have been regulars in the department whilst the other was away, proved their dedication etc. and then get it blown back in their faces.

It is stupid to say "what if no other staff is ready"...because in reality, that would never be the case unless it's a brand new department. There is always 1 staff member who can step up to it.

So really I think that departments should follow the HxL example. If a manager or Senior resigns, they have to be willing to work their way back up if they return.

And GM's as well for that matter. I think it's unfair that people can quit then just return straight back to the top, regardless of how good they were.

It's different if they're asked by Jin (or in managers cases, GMs) but if they just return expecting to get their old position back it's just unfair on other people - who may be better - just to get their position back.

HabboxLive example? No thanks.

They can work their way up, and be a wasted resource or they can be put into the previous position where the manager knows they'll do good.

If you were management, would you rather an experienced person in a higher role, or just someone who "was in line" and will have to be taught everything that you have to do with that new role. Not everyone is ready and if you're going to waste resources by going with the second option... that's just a poor management decision.

---------- Post added 08-02-2011 at 07:18 AM ----------


No idea were this came from - the best person for the job will get promoted whether they are staff are not. A few times as well we've had Head DJs who resigned return as senior DJs as they know how habboxlive work and that's what was needed at the time.

Promotions shouldn't really work on how long someones been there as it's certainly not the only thing thought about during someone getting promoted.

eg. Grig passed his trial and in the same week (check on that), he got Head DJ.

[-Danube-]

In some ways I agree...

In HxL we have the rule that you can return, but no matter if you were manager or regular DJ, you return as a regular DJ no matter what. But it seems that lately this hasn't been followed strictly...

I don't think bringing seniors back straightaway serves anything but annoy those who have been regulars in the department whilst the other was away, proved their dedication etc. and then get it blown back in their faces.

It is stupid to say "what if no other staff is ready"...because in reality, that would never be the case unless it's a brand new department. There is always 1 staff member who can step up to it.

So really I think that departments should follow the HxL example. If a manager or Senior resigns, they have to be willing to work their way back up if they return.

And GM's as well for that matter. I think it's unfair that people can quit then just return straight back to the top, regardless of how good they were.

It's different if they're asked by Jin (or in managers cases, GMs) but if they just return expecting to get their old position back it's just unfair on other people - who may be better - just to get their position back.

I don't think you can make this statement if you haven't been in a management role yourself. When a department is low on middle rank staff members (often when they have had high levels of senior staff leaving) then it's hard to find someone who can step up to a role.

You also can't say that all other departments should take HxL as an example as all other departments are different. For example in Rare Values the HRVRs are expected to update values on the site and add new rares (all with approval from me and Luke first) which is a very high trust role, i can't just be giving it to people who haven't quite fit into the role.

Also promotions to senior roles are decided by General Management really, i have to ask permission from Oli and Martin before i promote anyone to a senior role. So if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for Jin, it's good enough for Habbox.

[Grig]

No idea were this came from - the best person for the job will get promoted whether they are staff are not. A few times as well we've had Head DJs who resigned return as senior DJs as they know how habboxlive work and that's what was needed at the time.

Promotions shouldn't really work on how long someones been there as it's certainly not the only thing thought about during someone getting promoted.

This basically, I wondered where he got this forum. Managers have returned as Head, Heads as seniors and what not. It is all about experience, to be in a senior rank, some people underestimate the sheer amount of experience needed. Well for radio you do. You need to know everything like the back of your hands, have clean records, be a role model and so forth and so forth. I can go translating what a leader does, but I shan't. For example, if someone asked me some tech questions about the software, I am expected to in most cases know and assist on how to fix/ do stuff. This takes experience and people within the lower ranks are sometimes not ready to take on such an important role.

[Conservative,]

No idea were this came from - the best person for the job will get promoted whether they are staff are not. A few times as well we've had Head DJs who resigned return as senior DJs as they know how habboxlive work and that's what was needed at the time.

Promotions shouldn't really work on how long someones been there as it's certainly not the only thing thought about during someone getting promoted.


if you resign you will be allowed back in the future as long as there is room on the team, we have a limit of 50 DJs, 25 UK and 25 international. If you resign from a position such as Senior DJ then you will not be able to return to the same job.

http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=685008

if you want to check.

Obviously it's best person for the job. But I think it's complete ** if an old Senior comes in and just goes straight back to the top. What if they have been away for a year, or 2 years and are actually not that good anymore? A lot of people get overlooked when this happens which is actually quite disheartening for them.

I think it needs to be a balance between how long you've been here and how good you are. Because I think someone getting promoted on day 1 is a load of ****, but then it's not right to promote someone who's been here 5 years if they're actually not that good. It's about balance.

[Callum.]

HabboxLive example? No thanks.

They can work their way up, and be a wasted resource or they can be put into the previous position where the manager knows they'll do good.

If you were management, would you rather an experienced person in a higher role, or just someone who "was in line" and will have to be taught everything that you have to do with that new role. Not everyone is ready and if you're going to waste resources by going with the second option... that's just a poor management decision.

---------- Post added 08-02-2011 at 07:18 AM ----------



eg. Grig passed his trial and in the same week (check on that), he got Head DJ.

or you can train up a decent member of staff who is probably eager for the job rather than the person who is rejoining leaving a month later. it's all voluntary at the end of the day, people want to be a part of habbox and managers take things far to seriously.

[Inseriousity.]

You say this everytime a thread like this is made which is why I actually respect you. You're on of the few who get into a decent role and don't change massively into this strange being with power.

lolol I should copy and paste it somewhere tbh. :)
Personally, I see a manager's job as constantly trying to improve the staff from trialist to potential manager. That way, if someone did resign, there'd be no need to cross my fingers and hope they come back as there'd always be someone ready to step up to the plate. I also agree with your earlier statement that you can't really get the experience if you're not given the chance. Think of any good manager in the past (I tend to look up to Professor-Alex and Yum999, my first two habbox managers) and it makes me sad that Habbox could potentially be throwing away another manager like that because they're not being given the chance to take the step on that ladder.

[Conservative,]

I don't think you can make this statement if you haven't been in a management role yourself. When a department is low on middle rank staff members (often when they have had high levels of senior staff leaving) then it's hard to find someone who can step up to a role.

You also can't say that all other departments should take HxL as an example as all other departments are different. For example in Rare Values the HRVRs are expected to update values on the site and add new rares (all with approval from me and Luke first) which is a very high trust role, i can't just be giving it to people who haven't quite fit into the role.

Also promotions to senior roles are decided by General Management really, i have to ask permission from Oli and Martin before i promote anyone to a senior role. So if it's good enough for them, it's good enough for Jin, it's good enough for Habbox.

I haven't been in a managerial role here, but at other sites I have and I never once had a problem of people not being ready. If I wanted to promote someone, I had someone I wanted to promote, I didn't need to bring back old staff.

[Mathew]

I think that staff who have resigned should understand that they can't just come back in a high position, there are other people suitable for the role.
This makes it sound like the people returning asked to go back at such a high level. I think it's highly unlikely Martin went to Matt and said "oioi, make me AGM" :P


Mathew, they may not have the experience, however, they get promoted and gain experience through that, the only way you get experience is being in the role in question.
Good point. Can't complain with that.


As someone also just said, about you can return to a senior role if you was in a management position in the department, so why is it, that some staff return as one of the lowest levels they can be within the department. For example Roxy916 she returned as a normal event staff but a Senior HxHD staff. I think she should have been senior in both departments. Yes maybe there may not be enough room for a Senior EO and also she may not mind, but some people who haven't been in management positions are returning back at what they were originally?
You've answered this yourself really :P Roxy's been management before so she went back a place lower (Super Staff), and with Events there's no room for an SEO, hence normal :)


If they wanted to do that couldn't they just post away for a bit and have a break to see how they feel?
I can speak from experience as I resigned from Events last August for a couple of weeks before I decided I was bored and wanted to return. Something tickled my feathers and I easily got over it and wanted back. Surely you can't be saying I should have gone back on a trial after being normal staff for months previously? :)

I think it's down to what people expect to happen. We're all under the impression that there's a system set in stone - which there is, to an extent (you start on a trial, you move upwards).. but I do think people are expecting that because they've been in a department longer they should be promoted. It's not the case and it never should be - we need to be flexible and suit the needs at the present time, regardless of however long you've been there.

Heck, Phil joined Events months after me but he was promoted first. I was rather lousy and only met the minimum requirement while he went ahead and did loads. I don't think it's unfair at all, he deserved it :rolleyes:

On another note - woo for a healthy discussion! :P

[scott]

http://www.habboxforum.com/showthread.php?t=685008

if you want to check.

Obviously it's best person for the job. But I think it's complete ** if an old Senior comes in and just goes straight back to the top. What if they have been away for a year, or 2 years and are actually not that good anymore? A lot of people get overlooked when this happens which is actually quite disheartening for them.

I think it needs to be a balance between how long you've been here and how good you are. Because I think someone getting promoted on day 1 is a load of ****, but then it's not right to promote someone who's been here 5 years if they're actually not that good. It's about balance.

What I should have said then is generally if there is space you can return as one lower than you left as hence the example of head dj returning as a senior dj :P Not always the case but it has happened before. :P

[Conservative,]

What I should have said then is generally if there is space you can return as one lower than you left as hence the example of head dj returning as a senior dj :P Not always the case but it has happened before. :P

Not what it says though which was what my argument was on :P

[Josh]

or you can train up a decent member of staff who is probably eager for the job rather than the person who is rejoining leaving a month later. it's all voluntary at the end of the day, people want to be a part of habbox and managers take things far to seriously.

Managers always work towards that. However, at that moment in time, you want the best people leading your department so you can make it better for your successor which you've trained up.

[-Danube-]

To be honest, i think this has nothing to do with anyone.

If you accused a major company of being wrong by bringing back old members of staff to a higher rank, you'd probaly not get a very nice message back.

We are here in our own free will to provide a free service and to try do this to the best of out ability. You should just let departments work how they want to work, but if you feel this doesn't seem to be working and it 'failing' the department then a PM to Matt or Oli to flag this up is all is needed.

[xxMATTGxx]

or you can train up a decent member of staff who is probably eager for the job rather than the person who is rejoining leaving a month later. it's all voluntary at the end of the day, people want to be a part of habbox and managers take things far to seriously.

Which is sometimes done and once General Management believe they are ready, they get the management role. Obviously this mainly done with managers at times depending on the situation.


To be honest, i think this has nothing to do with anyone.

If you accused a major company of being wrong by bringing back old members of staff to a higher rank, you'd probaly not get a very nice message back.

We are here in our own free will to provide a free service and to try do this to the best of out ability. You should just let departments work how they want to work, but if you feel this doesn't seem to be working and it 'failing' the department then a PM to Matt or Oli to flag this up is all is needed.

I actually agree with this a bit, sometimes I do wonder. Well really, it is actually unto management at the end of the day who gets hired into what role. Yes sometimes it may look unfair for other people but nearly all the time it's actually for the best of that department and the correct thing to do at that time.

People return into their roles for many reasons, no one should really think they can resign and come back and expect their original role. If people have resigned and do come back in a previous role or a higher role such as Oli when he returned he became a member of the General Management Team, that is because at the time it was the best solution at the time and also the correct person to get in.

Whoever mentioned Recursion, he never returned back as a Super Moderator so I'm not sure where that information came from.

[Callum.]

Managers always work towards that. However, at that moment in time, you want the best people leading your department so you can make it better for your successor which you've trained up.

yeah in this case its the right thing to do, but it has happened plenty before where there is good staff in waiting.

and above a few, it's a feedback thread about how staff are brought back, opinions, views.

& I mentioned recursion, thought it was him who returned as smod. still regardless he was a quality mod. I retract that previous line of argument.

[HotelUser]

I suppose now would be a bad time for me to request to return to HxHD then, huh!

Habbox needs to appoint the people who are best for the job, who will make the department the most successful and allow it to thrive the most.

It's just like in real life where the successful applicants are the ones most qualified, and best capable to assume a position within the organization. Habbox's goal is to maintain its popularity, and be successful. Unfortunately if promotions were purely based on fairness and determined based off who's been within the department for the longest duration of time, that wouldn't guarantee the best possibility for success.

[Grig]

The world is about experience. If I had the chance I would hire Bill Gates or Richard Branson over Uncle Bob, who wouldn't compare to their managerial experience and what not. On your CV, you will get hired based on experience, who cares if there's some new guy freshly graduated from Uni wanting the job, I'd give it to the old bloke with a proven track record, if they had similar qualifications.

Obviously, Habbox functions differently to reality. But I would like to think that with someone in power as a motivator and leader, who has done it before and knows exactly what a department needs and how it needs it, is what I would take priority for, than someone who say could do a decent job, but would not be the best possible solution

[Conservative,]

The world is about experience. If I had the chance I would hire Bill Gates or Richard Branson over Uncle Bob, who wouldn't compare to their managerial experience and what not. On your CV, you will get hired based on experience, who cares if this some new guy freshly graduated from Uni wanting the job, I'd give it to the old bloke with a proven track record.

Obviously, Habbox functions differently to reality. But I would like to think that with someone in power as a motivator and leader, who has done it before and knows exactly what a department needs and how it needs it, is what I would take priority for, than someone who say could do a decent job, but would not be the best possible solution

The problem is, how do the managers KNOW that people in their department have never been Senior at other sites?

I for one have managed or been senior at 20+ sites but people don't ask me. I think the best way to go about it, if I'm honest, is applications. A few sites do that, but it just shows who actually DOES have experience, not who you THINK does. Because you never know, Uncle Bob in the corner could be Steve Jobs. So not only do you find out who actually has done that job before, but who WANTS it. Sometimes, although admittedly rarely, people don't WANT to be senior. Maybe because they don't have the time, or because the think someone else deserves it more.

[Callum.]

The world is about experience. If I had the chance I would hire Bill Gates or Richard Branson over Uncle Bob, who wouldn't compare to their managerial experience and what not. On your CV, you will get hired based on experience, who cares if this some new guy freshly graduated from Uni wanting the job, I'd give it to the old bloke with a proven track record, if they had similar qualifications.

Obviously, Habbox functions differently to reality. But I would like to think that with someone in power as a motivator and leader, who has done it before and knows exactly what a department needs and how it needs it, is what I would take priority for, than someone who say could do a decent job, but would not be the best possible solution

And you've also got to prepare for the future. You say track records, but people joining and leaving isn't an amazing track record, doesn't show good stability. I can only comment on what I see publically as I've never been staff but things should be built up when there's a strong current base. Like insecuriosity(sp from memory) said, it's like future managers, build them.

@robbie- habbox is a whole different ball game, imo.

[Shar]

lol I do love me some feedback threads on staff returning in higher positions.
1) They just make people feel bad
2) Most of the time they work out well e.g Oli, Martin and Jess.
3) If people who jump to a senior position quick they must have gained trust to be in such a position and might also have the experience.

It depends on the following really: the situation, person and the timing.

Oliver and Martin returned in a higher position and have been doing an excellent job with it. It made quite a lot of sense with their promotions as they both had admin in the past and are obviously trusted and they had a hell lot of experience.

I see no problem with this really, people just invent silly little problems.

[Inseriousity.]

The world is about experience. If I had the chance I would hire Bill Gates or Richard Branson over Uncle Bob, who wouldn't compare to their managerial experience and what not. On your CV, you will get hired based on experience, who cares if there's some new guy freshly graduated from Uni wanting the job, I'd give it to the old bloke with a proven track record, if they had similar qualifications.

Obviously, Habbox functions differently to reality. But I would like to think that with someone in power as a motivator and leader, who has done it before and knows exactly what a department needs and how it needs it, is what I would take priority for, than someone who say could do a decent job, but would not be the best possible solution

How do you know that Uncle Bob isn't going to be the next Richard Branson or the next Bill Gates? He could have ideas Bill Gates or Richard Branson have never dreamed of - and that's saying something - and you wouldn't know because you've never had the guts to find out. Despite that, if it was real life with money at risk, I'd obviously not choose Uncle Bob either but Habbox 'functions differently to reality' and therefore we are able to take more risks and reap the benefits if that risk pays off. If not, you learn from your mistakes. :)

edit: oh btw, I'm talking about positions like Senior DJ etc not Assistant General Managers which are expected to be at Habbox for a long period of time to really make a substantial impact whereas staff like senior djs are less 'irreplaceable'

[Grig]

The problem is, how do the managers KNOW that people in their department have never been Senior at other sites?

I for one have managed or been senior at 20+ sites but people don't ask me. I think the best way to go about it, if I'm honest, is applications. A few sites do that, but it just shows who actually DOES have experience, not who you THINK does. Because you never know, Uncle Bob in the corner could be Steve Jobs. So not only do you find out who actually has done that job before, but who WANTS it. Sometimes, although admittedly rarely, people don't WANT to be senior. Maybe because they don't have the time, or because the think someone else deserves it more.

Because that's where the dedication to Habbox factor comes in, we don't take people left, right and centre from the streets. They've been there before, we know they have and we know how well of a job they have done.


And you've also got to prepare for the future. You say track records, but people joining and leaving isn't an amazing track record, doesn't show good stability. I can only comment on what I see publically as I've never been staff but things should be built up when there's a strong current base. Like insecuriosity(sp from memory) said, it's like future managers, build them.

Well, you got to consider various factors, I would have to say it's a complex interplay. People just continuously joining and leaving will also be noticed and am sure won't get a job as easily.

[xxMATTGxx]

The problem is, how do the managers KNOW that people in their department have never been Senior at other sites?

I for one have managed or been senior at 20+ sites but people don't ask me. I think the best way to go about it, if I'm honest, is applications. A few sites do that, but it just shows who actually DOES have experience, not who you THINK does. Because you never know, Uncle Bob in the corner could be Steve Jobs. So not only do you find out who actually has done that job before, but who WANTS it. Sometimes, although admittedly rarely, people don't WANT to be senior. Maybe because they don't have the time, or because the think someone else deserves it more.

If a person has been management or senior on other fansites, that's nice to know and good for them in my opinion. You have to show your dedication and how much work you can do and what not while you are working for Habbox. Not while you worked for any other fansite, as that dedication could of dropped between them going from Fansite A to Fansite B.

[Grig]

How do you know that Uncle Bob isn't going to be the next Richard Branson or the next Bill Gates? He could have ideas Bill Gates or Richard Branson have never dreamed of - and that's saying something - and you wouldn't know because you've never had the guts to find out. Despite that, if it was real life with money at risk, I'd obviously not choose Uncle Bob either but Habbox 'functions differently to reality' and therefore we are able to take more risks and reap the benefits if that risk pays off. If not, you learn from your mistakes. :)

edit: oh btw, I'm talking about positions like Senior DJ etc not Assistant General Managers which are expected to be at Habbox for a long period of time to really make a substantial impact whereas staff like senior djs are less 'irreplaceable'

Senior DJs are also not found here and there on the streets, trust me. It takes a long time to work there, and to show you can be trusted with such a capacity. Obviously with recent changes it's been different, but we'll discount that fact.

[Conservative,]

If a person has been management or senior on other fansites, that's nice to know and good for them in my opinion. You have to show your dedication and how much work you can do and what not while you are working for Habbox. Not while you worked for any other fansite, as that dedication could of dropped between them going from Fansite A to Fansite B.

But that takes time. And people have been saying it shouldn't be based on time? Lol. Of course dedication is part of it, but that takes time to prove - you can't be "dedicated" after 1 week. That might just be a show to try and impress.

As I said, you have to get a balance - experience, dedication and skill. Experience - pretty easy to find out, ask people, or get them to apply. Dedication - again easy, just watch people, how much they help out in the department etc. Skill - again easy to monitor - watch their activity, how good they do their job etc.

I think it's unfair to put people ahead of other people because they were good before. It's not then, it's now. It CAN work, but leaving is just showing a LACK of dedication in my opinion - unless leaving for family matters, it shows they couldn't be bothered to find the time or effort to put into habbox.

[Inseriousity.]

I never said they were found on the streets. If we're going with this analogy, from the word go, managers should be training up potential seniors etc, giving them the soup, clean clothes, bed and Big Issues to sell that they need to be a good worker. This isn't always possible and I did say in my first post that this wasn't always possible (especially with mass resignations in "exams month(s)").

Also, discounting facts normally ends up with stupid policies but I'll not get into that.

[Grig]

But that takes time. And people have been saying it shouldn't be based on time? Lol. Of course dedication is part of it, but that takes time to prove - you can't be "dedicated" after 1 week. That might just be a show to try and impress.

As I said, you have to get a balance - experience, dedication and skill. Experience - pretty easy to find out, ask people, or get them to apply. Dedication - again easy, just watch people, how much they help out in the department etc. Skill - again easy to monitor - watch their activity, how good they do their job etc.

I think it's unfair to put people ahead of other people because they were good before. It's not then, it's now. It CAN work, but leaving is just showing a LACK of dedication in my opinion - unless leaving for family matters, it shows they couldn't be bothered to find the time or effort to put into habbox.

People leaving is not a lack of it. In hindsight, people leave for exams, health reasons, family reasons, because they need a break and many more. These are all valid reasons and it is absolutely wrong and unjust to say, this bloke has left, so he has no dedication to Habbox (despite maybe that person putting in tireless and countless of hours in the past, working blood, sweat and tears).

[xxMATTGxx]

But that takes time. And people have been saying it shouldn't be based on time? Lol. Of course dedication is part of it, but that takes time to prove - you can't be "dedicated" after 1 week. That might just be a show to try and impress.

As I said, you have to get a balance - experience, dedication and skill. Experience - pretty easy to find out, ask people, or get them to apply. Dedication - again easy, just watch people, how much they help out in the department etc. Skill - again easy to monitor - watch their activity, how good they do their job etc.

I think it's unfair to put people ahead of other people because they were good before. It's not then, it's now. It CAN work, but leaving is just showing a LACK of dedication in my opinion - unless leaving for family matters, it shows they couldn't be bothered to find the time or effort to put into habbox.




But that takes time. And people have been saying it shouldn't be based on time? Lol. Of course dedication is part of it, but that takes time to prove - you can't be "dedicated" after 1 week. That might just be a show to try and impress.

You say it takes time, yes It can take time. But if that member isn't willing to put time in then maybe they shouldn't really deserve the higher up role. I'm sorry but we shouldn't start hiring people into management/senior/head roles because they have simply worked for other fansites, they should show they are willing to commit their time and put dedication into their role while with Habbox. People leaving doesn't mean they lack dedication at all, everyone has their own reasons why they leave their role at Habbox. So because Oli left, means he lacked dedication? Of course not.

[Shar]

But that takes time. And people have been saying it shouldn't be based on time? Lol. Of course dedication is part of it, but that takes time to prove - you can't be "dedicated" after 1 week. That might just be a show to try and impress.

As I said, you have to get a balance - experience, dedication and skill. Experience - pretty easy to find out, ask people, or get them to apply. Dedication - again easy, just watch people, how much they help out in the department etc. Skill - again easy to monitor - watch their activity, how good they do their job etc.

I think it's unfair to put people ahead of other people because they were good before. It's not then, it's now. It CAN work, but leaving is just showing a LACK of dedication in my opinion - unless leaving for family matters, it shows they couldn't be bothered to find the time or effort to put into habbox.
Say a random person came from another fansite with lots of experience, they show dedication in a week and get promoted to a senior position like a manager's very quickly and then they abuse their privileges as a manager.
I agree its about dedication but its also about trust.

[Mr-Trainor]

I personally feel that it should be based on who is best of the job; who the management think will do a better job and perform to the highest level possible.

I definitely do not feel that promotions should just go to who ever has been 'waiting' for the longest duration. The longest amount of time is not always related to the highest level of potential in a higher position. The decision is up to management and they will always do what they feel is best.

[Callum.]

But that takes time. And people have been saying it shouldn't be based on time? Lol. Of course dedication is part of it, but that takes time to prove - you can't be "dedicated" after 1 week. That might just be a show to try and impress.

As I said, you have to get a balance - experience, dedication and skill. Experience - pretty easy to find out, ask people, or get them to apply. Dedication - again easy, just watch people, how much they help out in the department etc. Skill - again easy to monitor - watch their activity, how good they do their job etc.

I think it's unfair to put people ahead of other people because they were good before. It's not then, it's now. It CAN work, but leaving is just showing a LACK of dedication in my opinion - unless leaving for family matters, it shows they couldn't be bothered to find the time or effort to put into habbox.

You're putting everything as 'easy' when it's obviously far from it. You've got to moniter everything carefully, and as much as some people don't like it, the best thing for Habbox always has to come first which is obviously down to the managers choice.

Yeah i'm kinda jumping fences a bit, but it all comes down to Habbox.

[Conservative,]

I never said they were found on the streets. If we're going with this analogy, from the word go, managers should be training up potential seniors etc, giving them the soup, clean clothes, bed and Big Issues to sell that they need to be a good worker. This isn't always possible and I did say in my first post that this wasn't always possible (especially with mass resignations in "exams month(s)").

Also, discounting facts normally ends up with stupid policies but I'll not get into that.

Agreed lol.

I'm just going to say finally, I think more thought should be put into promotions. I'm not saying managers just go "I like him/her - *gives them Senior*" at all, but I think the fact that so many people are brought back straight in at the top shows a lack of effort by managers to try and find out who would be good in their existing department.

Obviously bringing people back can work, but not always, and I think you need to give new people a chance.

For example; England have a fairly stable football team, we've got good players who have played for a long time, but if we never tried (for example) Joe Hart instead of Robert Green - we'd never know he was better. Robert Green is a decent player (except for his world cup slip up - which shows old staff aren't always the best to use) and sure, he's earned his place, but if you give Joe Hart a chance, he'll take it with both hands and do everything he can to keep his place (Rob Green being Ex-Seniors, Joe Hart being current staff willing to take Senior).

[Mathew]

Say a random person came from another fansite with lots of experience, they show dedication in a week and get promoted to a senior position like a manager's very quickly and then they abuse their privileges as a manager.
I agree its about dedication but its also about trust.
Then people would complain it's unfair when people come from other sites and instantly get to the top, ignoring everyone else who was at Habbox in the first place. You just can't win! :P

[Conservative,]

Say a random person came from another fansite with lots of experience, they show dedication in a week and get promoted to a senior position like a manager's very quickly and then they abuse their privileges as a manager.
I agree its about dedication but its also about trust.

That's exactly what I just said? Lol. You may be experienced and show good dedication but you need to be trusted and skilled. You may be skilled and dedicated, but you need experience. You may be experienced and skilled, but you need to show dedication.

it's like the three sides of promotion:

Experience
Skill Dedication

take one away, and you shouldn't have a promotion.

[Shar]

Then people would complain it's unfair when people come from other sites and instantly get to the top, ignoring everyone else who was at Habbox in the first place. You just can't win! :P
I guess its just based on opinions! xD

[despect]

But that takes time. And people have been saying it shouldn't be based on time? Lol. Of course dedication is part of it, but that takes time to prove - you can't be "dedicated" after 1 week. That might just be a show to try and impress.

As I said, you have to get a balance - experience, dedication and skill. Experience - pretty easy to find out, ask people, or get them to apply. Dedication - again easy, just watch people, how much they help out in the department etc. Skill - again easy to monitor - watch their activity, how good they do their job etc.

I think it's unfair to put people ahead of other people because they were good before. It's not then, it's now. It CAN work, but leaving is just showing a LACK of dedication in my opinion - unless leaving for family matters, it shows they couldn't be bothered to find the time or effort to put into habbox.

I've just left my habbox role, does that mean i'm showing a lack of dedication after working at habboxlive department for what a year (i think) havent actually counted :P.

O/T: I think its about whats best for the department if someone is brought back to a high role then it obviously means the general management team and the department manager and or the assistant have trust in that person that they will do a good job.

[triston220]

This really isn't always the case I don't think. If the members that resigned is more suitable for the job than another member then they should get it.

Off topic: Aren't we all colourful:

http://i.min.us/ibXGxu.png (http://min.us/mvkBc79)

:P.

[Conservative,]

I've just left my habbox role, does that mean i'm showing a lack of dedication after working at habboxlive department for what a year and a half? :S

O/T: I think its about whats best for the department if someone is brought back to a high role then it obviously means the general management team and the department manager and or the assistant have trust in that person that they will do a good job.

Not necessarily, but I know why etc. If you leave because "you can't be bothered" then obviously that's not showing dedication

(The underlined bit): Who says they're always right? :S

[despect]

Not necessarily, but I know why etc. If you leave because "you can't be bothered" then obviously that's not showing dedication

(The underlined bit): Who says they're always right? :S

isnt that about taking a risk, if that person has been in the role before then they know what they are doing if they then return to not do their job properly then they won't be staff for much longer, will they?

[Conservative,]

isnt that about taking a risk, if that person has been in the role before then they know what they are doing if they then return to not do their job properly then they won't be staff for much longer, will they?

But why give them a chance again? Maybe they left because they didn't get one with people?

It depends on circumstances I guess. But I think you need to make sure everyone who wants the promotion is given a fair look at. Not just "Oh yeah, he was good last time, lets promote him after 1 day" etc.

[Grig]

But why give them a chance again? Maybe they left because they didn't get one with people?

It depends on circumstances I guess. But I think you need to make sure everyone who wants the promotion is given a fair look at. Not just "Oh yeah, he was good last time, lets promote him after 1 day" etc.

This is what is done at Habbox when it comes to promotions. Habbox looks at all the possible options and see who is best fit for the promotion and would do the best job. Sometimes these discussions can last quite a while ;p.

[despect]

But why give them a chance again? Maybe they left because they didn't get one with people?

It depends on circumstances I guess. But I think you need to make sure everyone who wants the promotion is given a fair look at. Not just "Oh yeah, he was good last time, lets promote him after 1 day" etc.

i think when they let people back they will obviously look at people in the department and think "oh is there anyone who is already staff that could do the role well enough" if there isnt someone who could take up that role, then why not bring that person back? when bringing someone back they will look at what they've done for the department in the past to see if they actually deserve the role. They wouldnt bring back someone if they didnt deserve the role lol.

[Conservative,]

This is what is done at Habbox when it comes to promotions. Habbox looks at all the possible options and see who is best fit for the promotion and would do the best job. Sometimes these discussions can last quite a while ;p.

But what if the best person doesn't want it? And what if they're NOT the best person? You cannot KNOW for sure, you may THINK, but you cannot KNOW, because they're could be an underdog who is actually the next ,Jess, but no one knows because it's a continual stream of ex-Seniors being re-promoted.

If you want my fix to it:

Ex-Senior staff should not be allowed promotion for a month after coming back, unless stated otherwise by Jin or GMs...

[xxMATTGxx]

But what if the best person doesn't want it? And what if they're NOT the best person? You cannot KNOW for sure, you may THINK, but you cannot KNOW, because they're could be an underdog who is actually the next ,Jess, but no one knows because it's a continual stream of ex-Seniors being re-promoted.

If you want my fix to it:

Ex-Senior staff should not be allowed promotion for a month after coming back, unless stated otherwise by Jin or GMs...

Most of the time we have a list of different candidates and then we choose the one who will do the best for the department and who deserves it and so on. If that candidate does not want the job for whatever reason, we can pick another person from our list. Plus, not everyone will agree on every single promotion decision but at the end of the day it is up to management.

[Callum.]

Robbie you're fighting a pointless battle. Habbox's interests are at heart, and you seem like you're not willing to put what is needed to move up, it's not always easy or quick.

[nvrspk4]

The idea that sometimes staff who resigned and are brought back are best for the job has been met with criticism by those who say that you can learn on the job. And they're right. However, what you're not considering is that there are other factors other than being ready for the responsibilities for the job, certain traits which I would want my managers to have down BEFORE I promoted them.

Let me use an anonymous and vague example from when I was GM, that I promise is true.

A certain member of staff was very dedicated, and very good at the job they were doing. However, this member of staff had problems dealing with their coworkers, and also hadn't quite gotten the hang of maturity. Many times this person was passed over for the managerial position, simply because I did not feel that they had enough of a rapport with their current coworkers to be an effective manager (the same is true for Senior positions in most departments) and I also felt that this person didn't have the maturity.

Later on, because this person chose to slog it out because of love for the job, they eventually matured, got on good terms with the department, and moved up into management. But for a long time, there was some hostility whenever there were promotions in the department because this person would be constantly passed over.

I give this as an example of one of many reasons why someone might be "not ready" for the job, in a way in which simply promoting them to the job and letting them learn on the fly might do more harm than good. I feel like I've discussed this recently in a thread about pretty much the same topic, I believe there I also used an example of someone who was so critical and so good at the role they were currently in that it was better for Habbox overall to promote someone who was just slightly less qualified, and leave that person in the position (although I did discuss it with the person who was staying in their position, as that was only fair.) Still, there are a number of reasons.


That said, for the most part you don't get to return directly to the position you had, in most cases you return one lower. I have seen exceptions to this made for HxHD-SS because its a different type of seniority than any other department, where HxHD-SS don't really have an oversight or managerial role as much as simply having rights and a little more stature. But, when the situation warrants it, people do return to the position they had.

Also we shouldn't (me included) refuse to buy into a strategy simply because its not the traditional way of doing things. If it has been proven that the standard operating procedure no longer works because of certain situations (and I and many others have commented on how the staffing situation is dramatically different nowadays) and the management can give good reasoning for a new operating procedure, well then change is good.

EDIT: That ended up being so much longer than I thought it was going to be...even when I hit Submit Post and saw how long the post was I was really surprised lol.

[Slowpoke]

Not necessarily, but I know why etc. If you leave because "you can't be bothered" then obviously that's not showing dedication

Not necessarily, some people just simply grow out of the job, so to speak. If someone working in the competitions department begins to get bored of Habbo it means they're likely to quit the job seeing how the role requires them to use Habbo. It doesn't mean that they were not a dedicated member of staff

[Inseriousity.]

Robbie you're fighting a pointless battle. Habbox's interests are at heart, and you seem like you're not willing to put what is needed to move up, it's not always easy or quick.

just to add to this but 'Current objective: world domination' don't sound too good for future promotion prospects :P

Management try their best to hire the best people for the job for Habbox, that's the important thing. If the onlyway to do this is to rehire someone else who's just returned to the same position then so be it. Unfortunately, I don't always think it is the only way.

[despect]

Not necessarily, some people just simply grow out of the job, so to speak. If someone working in the competitions department begins to get bored of Habbo it means they're likely to quit the job seeing how the role requires them to use Habbo. It doesn't mean that they were not a dedicated member of staff

This. If someone stops enjoying the role then its only right to resign so that someone else can take the role and do a good job. :)

[Conservative,]

Not necessarily, some people just simply grow out of the job, so to speak. If someone working in the competitions department begins to get bored of Habbo it means they're likely to quit the job seeing how the role requires them to use Habbo. It doesn't mean that they were not a dedicated member of staff

I haven't played habbo of my own accord for nearly a year, it doesn't mean I don't enjoy DJing - I love it. I just go on habbo to interact with the listeners and I have no problem with that - again it's showing dedication. If you don't enjoy it, obviously leave, but if you enjoy the job, and just happen to not like 1 part of it, quitting is pretty pointless.

[Jsoh]

Personally the only things that would annoy me are;
- If the person left then went to another fansite and was allowed back without applying or anything.
- If the person comes back to a job higher up than the job which they previously left.
- If the person left a considerable amount of time ago (more than say 6 weeks).

Otherwise I think rehiring staff who are good at their jobs is no problem, as long as they do a good job there should be no worries in my mind.

[Hecktix]

We are given the task of running Habbox, Habbox will only run if there is a stable management team and within each department there is a strong team of senior staff.

This thread doesn't seem to be about General Management so we won't go down that road however this thread does seem to be about senior staff decisions within Departments.

I'll say what we've always said and what people have said in this thread, people are given positions based on whether it will be good for Habbox, if we do not feel that someone already in the department would do the role appropriately (you may disagree with our opinion, however I hate to be blunt but tough, we're management, it's our decision to make not yours - this isn't be being cocky, arrogant or power-mad it's me stating the truth. Habbox Staff appointments are the business of Habbox Management) and we know there is someone who is looking into returning who A) didn't leave that long ago B) would have walked their way to this promotion much earlier if they had stayed in the department we will give them the job, as our main concern is making sure our Departments run to the best of their ability.

The example nvr gave is quite true, and I don't think David will mind be saying this however I think Nvr may have been on about David (Hoteluser) - David told me the other week that although he had been at HxHD longer than any other HxHD staff, he felt that when management finally gave him his promotion, that was the time he was actually ready in himself to do the job.

We're out for the best for Habbox, take HabboxLive for example, when we put Jess back into the position of HxL Manager we got a lot of criticism, however I think I can safely say that we could not have chosen anybody within the department (with all due respect to JamesOYES, he even admitted someone with experience needed the job for the state the department was in) who could have turned HxL around like Jess could, it's turned from one of the most struggling departments on Habbox to one of the strongest in a matter of 2 weeks.

The majority of promotions at Habbox come through the standard system of promoting someone who has worked hard within the department, however if we think that within the department there isn't currently anyone for the job and we're aware of someone who would be good in the job wanting to return, we'll do it - and no matter how many feedback threads are made, we'll do it because we do what's best for Habbox and 90% of the time these decisions are the correct ones (HabboxLive for example).

[GommeInc]

If you've quit because you've got bored or because you were fired, then you've lost any right to come back and severed any link with "Seniorship". If you've left for short term reasons, like exams, then it's open for debate. In all other cases, you should have to work from the ground up, especially when there are other people who will have more right to be "senior staff", manage or "head" of the department.

That said, if you're obviously good for the job, then go back to being a senior member, but obviously if it doesn't cause a stir with established staff.

[Josh]

I haven't played habbo of my own accord for nearly a year, it doesn't mean I don't enjoy DJing - I love it. I just go on habbo to interact with the listeners and I have no problem with that - again it's showing dedication. If you don't enjoy it, obviously leave, but if you enjoy the job, and just happen to not like 1 part of it, quitting is pretty pointless.

No offence, but that's part of your job description as a DJ.

[Alex3213]

My guts about this is that it's sometimes taking about a risk. It's a bit like applications really, you don't know how well people will do, so that's why you give them a trial. In some cases it's all about taking a risk here and using the same principle. However, trust bumps this down as it is a senior position, moreover dedication. Normally you can tell by the way they act how well they will cope under a senior position, however if it is still very vague the department has every right to bring someone back in. If it'll do the department good rather than destroying some parts of it somehow, they should do it. Of course, like Mike said, some departments work differently, as he said in the Competitions Department you need to reapply but you don't have a trial, regardless of your position just to see how much effort you will put in. All in all, 95% of these "returnees" have multiple reasons why so, just to maintain a high standard in the department, I would guess.

[Recursion]

Exactly this happened in the forum department, it annoyed me, I left again.

[Samantha]

This. If someone stops enjoying the role then its only right to resign so that someone else can take the role and do a good job. :)

I agree with this, last February I'll admit I was ready to resign at the end of it, I just wanted to stay until the end of the month (unforseen circumstances got me fired six days before the end but I won't divulge into that.)
It's not just James who has said that if you get bored resign. I agree with him entirely, I often on other fansites became majorily bored so posted away.
It gives another person a chance and if it was something like events, for me, I could return if there was space when I liked and I wouldn't mind starting back from the bottom.

Personally the only things that would annoy me are;
- If the person left then went to another fansite and was allowed back without applying or anything.
- If the person comes back to a job higher up than the job which they previously left.
- If the person left a considerable amount of time ago (more than say 6 weeks).

Otherwise I think rehiring staff who are good at their jobs is no problem, as long as they do a good job there should be no worries in my mind.

I agree with you there Josh, I don't think Grig will mind me using his name in my example but Grig is one dedicated member to HabboxForum. He left for ClubHabbo after being dismissed here and then only applied once the applications were open. I think this proves that he wasn't looking for promotion straight away but he knew he had the experience to do any job within the radio department, therefore was willing to work up for it.
On the other hand, if Grig had have only resigned previously then went in a Senior Staff position at ClubHabbo then I don't think it would have been fair if he had returned back to his previous role at Habbox, however, regardless of my example I doubt he would have done that.

I don't agree fully on that one. I think my arguement is how long they have resigned before giving the oppurtunity and also why they resigned in the first place. If they resigned as they didn't have time, then no I don't agree with them returning quickly in a higher position. However, being the best for the role/position is a different ball game in my opinion. If the current General Management team don't think that there is anyone ready, then there most probably will not be, it just steers Habbox in the right direction.

I do agree with you. I think anything over a month or two is a too long of a gap to be away from duties if you were to return at a senior position. However, if say like HabboxLive or Rares with three levels before management then I think that if you were in a senior role, then you should go to the one lower down, if there is space. However, depending on the time being gone, I don't have a problem with people coming and going but if there is someone else that could do the job as well as them then maybe they could be given a chance. They may try, they may fail, they may get demoted but that's what happens in most jobs nowadays.

[Catzsy]

That's exactly what I just said? Lol. You may be experienced and show good dedication but you need to be trusted and skilled. You may be skilled and dedicated, but you need experience. You may be experienced and skilled, but you need to show dedication.

it's like the three sides of promotion:

Experience
Skill Dedication
take one away, and you shouldn't have a promotion.

Nail hit on the head here although you probably didn't realise it. I cannot think of one person who returned who didn't have that. Habbox does not practice nepotism but neither is it a democracy and those who have left because 'somebody else got promoted' show a lack of maturity anyway as it is basically 'throwing the toys out of the pram'.

[Nick]

(First of all, the people that have done this, don't even go phsyco on me..)

I really dislike the fact when people resign as staff, if it's HRVR or RVR, HxHD or HxHD-SS they can return to their old position straight away. I don't have a problem without them being trialed again without applying but that's unfair. If there is a space free for a senior position then it should be given to a normal staff qho deserves it.

Also, for someone to disappear, then return several months afte does not make sense. The department may of changed by then and for them to step back in to a senior position should not be allowed.

This is just senior positons by the way, or even normal staff - not managers as obviously I see the reasoning behind it.

Also I remember last time this came up, someone mentioned peopel shouldn't be promoted as they don't have the experience... but if people keep returning so high into a department - no one will ever get a promotion nor will there be new staff?

Mainly because their manager already knows there skills and qualites :)

[Conservative,]

Nail hit on the head here although you probably didn't realise it. I cannot think of one person who returned who didn't have that. Habbox does not practice nepotism but neither is it a democracy and those who have left because 'somebody else got promoted' show a lack of maturity anyway as it is basically 'throwing the toys out of the pram'.

Those who return should have to re-prove their dedication. Because unless you leave for a legitimate reason (family issues, computer issues, exams etc.) then you show a lack of dedication by leaving because "you can't be bothered" anymore.

Skill is easy, anyone who is a DJ at HxL certainly is skilled, and then there is just experience, as I said before - you cannot tell what experience people might have by taking one look at them. It is sometimes necessary to ask them because for all you know, they could've been Head of BBC Radio 1 for 10 years without you knowing.

Really, I think some kind of application should be implemented - where those who WANT promotions can apply, stating their relevant experience (so that the manager doesn't just assume) as well as why they think they deserve it. This has worked at my previous sites and I think it would be best for Habbox, especially when promotions are so hard to get and people deeply want them, it wipes away all suspicions of favouritism or lack of judgement. If people want the promotion - they apply, then the best 2 or 3 are trialed for a week or 2 then the best one for the job is picked. That's my opinion, that's how it should work, because it's fair and in the end, everyone who wants to be considered - is.

[despect]

Those who return should have to re-prove their dedication. Because unless you leave for a legitimate reason (family issues, computer issues, exams etc.) then you show a lack of dedication by leaving because "you can't be bothered" anymore.

Skill is easy, anyone who is a DJ at HxL certainly is skilled, and then there is just experience, as I said before - you cannot tell what experience people might have by taking one look at them. It is sometimes necessary to ask them because for all you know, they could've been Head of BBC Radio 1 for 10 years without you knowing.

Really, I think some kind of application should be implemented - where those who WANT promotions can apply, stating their relevant experience (so that the manager doesn't just assume) as well as why they think they deserve it. This has worked at my previous sites and I think it would be best for Habbox, especially when promotions are so hard to get and people deeply want them, it wipes away all suspicions of favouritism or lack of judgement. If people want the promotion - they apply, then the best 2 or 3 are trialed for a week or 2 then the best one for the job is picked. That's my opinion, that's how it should work, because it's fair and in the end, everyone who wants to be considered - is.

If applications were open i can tell you now that ALL of the department would apply i know for a fact that in every department everyone is there for at least one promotion in that department, i don't think anyone would not want a promotion. As for your comment about people saying "they can't be bothered anymore" that may just mean they was no longer enjoying that role, surely you'd want someone who was a manager/in a senior role to enjoy the role they were given if they don't enjoy it then its only right to give it someone else who wants to take that role and do a good job.

[Alkaz]

Really, I think some kind of application should be implemented - where those who WANT promotions can apply, stating their relevant experience (so that the manager doesn't just assume) as well as why they think they deserve it. This has worked at my previous sites and I think it would be best for Habbox, especially when promotions are so hard to get and people deeply want them, it wipes away all suspicions of favouritism or lack of judgement. If people want the promotion - they apply, then the best 2 or 3 are trialed for a week or 2 then the best one for the job is picked. That's my opinion, that's how it should work, because it's fair and in the end, everyone who wants to be considered - is.
Wouldn't that be counterproductive though. I know for a fact that if I was in the running for something such as HxHD Super Staff and got rejected because someone else was better I would be so disheartened and wouldn't necessarily see the point of continuing as I would feel undervalued or as if I wasn't worth it. Whereas if someone else was promoted I would be thinking what can I do to improve myself so I can get the promotion instead of someone else next time.

[Conservative,]

If applications were open i can tell you now that ALL of the department would apply i know for a fact that in every department everyone is there for at least one promotion in that department, i don't think anyone would not want a promotion. As for your comment about people saying "they can't be bothered anymore" that may just mean they was no longer enjoying that role, surely you'd want someone who was a manager/in a senior role to enjoy the role they were given if they don't enjoy it then its only right to give it someone else who wants to take that role and do a good job.

Not necessarily. I know someone who has had a Senior role but didn't want it.

And hence why people should not be given it if they return when they quit because "they can't be bothered" because that, as you rightly said, says they don't enjoy it, which means that when they come back...will they really enjoy it? Probably not, they're probably just there for the power.

I just think there needs to be a fairer system in place (such as applications) so that people who want it, get to be considered, and those that don't - aren't. And before someone says "we look at every individual" you cannot possibly know every shred of experience they have in a Senior Position unless you're going to dig up their applications (which are most likely deleted after replied to). You don't KNOW who has the most experience. You don't KNOW who will enjoy it the most. You don't KNOW who'll do the best job. You've got to give everyone who wants the chance to be considered that chance or it becomes a society of dictatorship where the leaders put their friends in power because they think "they'll do the best job" when in reality for all you know little DJ Benny could be the best Senior DJ ever, but because the RM doesn't like him, he won't get promotion.

If people are getting promotions based on past experience, then really, shouldn't everyone be asked about their past experience? ;l

---------- Post added 08-02-2011 at 03:46 PM ----------


Wouldn't that be counterproductive though. I know for a fact that if I was in the running for something such as HxHD Super Staff and got rejected because someone else was better I would be so disheartened and wouldn't necessarily see the point of continuing as I would feel undervalued or as if I wasn't worth it. Whereas if someone else was promoted I would be thinking what can I do to improve myself so I can get the promotion instead of someone else next time.

I wouldn't see it like that. I'd ask the manager why they got it instead of me and then work on whatever they said I needed to to get it next time. Yes I might be a little upset, but then that's the same with regular DJ applications - people apply and people are turned down. That doesn't stop them applying next time round.

[despect]

Not necessarily. I know someone who has had a Senior role but didn't want it.

And hence why people should not be given it if they return when they quit because "they can't be bothered" because that, as you rightly said, says they don't enjoy it, which means that when they come back...will they really enjoy it? Probably not, they're probably just there for the power.

I just think there needs to be a fairer system in place (such as applications) so that people who want it, get to be considered, and those that don't - aren't. And before someone says "we look at every individual" you cannot possibly know every shred of experience they have in a Senior Position unless you're going to dig up their applications (which are most likely deleted after replied to). You don't KNOW who has the most experience. You don't KNOW who will enjoy it the most. You don't KNOW who'll do the best job. You've got to give everyone who wants the chance to be considered that chance or it becomes a society of dictatorship where the leaders put their friends in power because they think "they'll do the best job" when in reality for all you know little DJ Benny could be the best Senior DJ ever, but because the RM doesn't like him, he won't get promotion.

If people are getting promotions based on past experience, then really, shouldn't everyone be asked about their past experience? ;l

Sure they may of been at other fansites and been radio manager or at a high role there? yh so? this is habbox not another fansite if you left that fansite to join habbox then doesnt mean you should have to work your way up again and prove your dedicated to habbox? :S
I really agree with what joe said before that i know if i applied and didnt get the job i'd feel undervalued and would mostly likely just give up whereas if someone else got promoted i'd think of other ways to improve myself to get a promotion next time. :)

[Conservative,]

Sure they may of been at other fansites and been radio manager or at a high role there? yh so? this is habbox not another fansite if you left that fansite to join habbox then doesnt mean you should have to work your way up again and prove your dedicated to habbox? :S
I really agree with what joe said before that i know if i applied and didnt get the job i'd feel undervalued and would mostly likely just give up whereas if someone else got promoted i'd think of other ways to improve myself to get a promotion next time. :)

As I said. People apply to habbox time and time again when they don't get in - the application process is just a fairer way. Unless you want to go around picking DJs up from other sites because you like them? Because that's essentially the same thing.

And yes - you need to prove dedication, but if you've been here a decent amount of time, showed you're a good DJ, helpful etc. but then are rejected because you have no "experience" that's MORE of a reason to leave because they haven't inquired into what experience you have.

It also shows you're willing to work your way up, if you've worked your way up other sites.

As I said - the manages need to at least ASK the people what experience they have. Whether it been in an application or just a convo on MSN like "hey, have you been Senior at any other sites..." "Yes... at these sites:.." because you cannot know who is the best for the job if you don't know what experience they have.

Regardless of dedication or skill, if you're judging on experience because "He was Senior DJ 2 years ago" but "he is a regular DJ currently" how can you know whether the current regular DJ was not Radio Manager of another official fansite? You can't. And there in lies my point - if you are hiring people because of experience, you have to take into consideration people who have been Seniors at OTHER sites as well as habbox. Because I think someone who has been Radio manager at 10 other sites (obviously they all have to be quite good) compared to one DJ who has been Senior DJ once 1-2 years ago, who would you pick? With a decent bit of common sense - the dude who was RM at 10 other sites. Oh, but wait, you wouldn't know that because you DIDN'T ASK ;l

[despect]

As I said. People apply to habbox time and time again when they don't get in - the application process is just a fairer way. Unless you want to go around picking DJs up from other sites because you like them? Because that's essentially the same thing.

And yes - you need to prove dedication, but if you've been here a decent amount of time, showed you're a good DJ, helpful etc. but then are rejected because you have no "experience" that's MORE of a reason to leave because they haven't inquired into what experience you have.

It also shows you're willing to work your way up, if you've worked your way up other sites.

As I said - the manages need to at least ASK the people what experience they have. Whether it been in an application or just a convo on MSN like "hey, have you been Senior at any other sites..." "Yes... at these sites:.." because you cannot know who is the best for the job if you don't know what experience they have that imo would waste a hell of a lot of time whereas they could either promote someone within the department OR bring someone back.

Regardless of dedication or skill, if you're judging on experience because "He was Senior DJ 2 years ago" but "he is a regular DJ currently" how can you know whether the current regular DJ was not Radio Manager of another official fansite? You can't. And there in lies my point - if you are hiring people because of experience, you have to take into consideration people who have been Seniors at OTHER sites as well as habbox. Because I think someone who has been Radio manager at 10 other sites (obviously they all have to be quite good) compared to one DJ who has been Senior DJ once 1-2 years ago, who would you pick? With a decent bit of common sense - the dude who was RM at 10 other sites. Oh, but wait, you wouldn't know that because you DIDN'T ASK ;l

Ever thought people could just say "yeah i've been radio manager here, general manager here, head dj here" etc and actually lie about it to make them look better? you don't exactly expect habbox to go to these fansites and ask whether they are actually telling the truth. that imo would waste a hell of a lot of time when they could easily promote someone within the department OR bring someone back who knows what they are doing.

[Conservative,]

Ever thought people could just say "yeah i've been radio manager here, general manager here, head dj here" etc and actually lie about it to make them look better? you don't exactly expect habbox to go to these fansites and ask whether they are actually telling the truth.

You have to have an element of trust. Obviously if you think they're lying then don't accept it, but it's unfair to hire someone because you know their past experience, against a potentially better candidate, but you can't be bothered to check their experience.

[despect]

You have to have an element of trust. Obviously if you think they're lying then don't accept it, but it's unfair to hire someone because you know their past experience, against a potentially better candidate, but you can't be bothered to check their experience.

I don't see as being unfair its about doing whats best for the department and whats best for habbox as a whole.

[Alex3213]

I don't see as being unfair its about doing whats best for the department and whats best for habbox as whole.

This. I could say "I HAZ BEEN COMPS MANAGER OF THAT FANSITE CALLED HABBOCOMPS" (lol sorry had to use a name which didnt exist) but all in all, how does that make you any more valued? It could have no more than 5 members!! Department Managers take into account their Habbox history rather than another fansite because that's what they've worked for, and the processes are going to be near abouts the same as they were since they left. A department manager will take everything into account, I know that any manager on here would cos they're all very genuine people, to see what is best. I haven't got a problem with staff returning as long as it works well (although that makes me a hypocrite because of the competitions rule- however I take this as an exception due to it's limited numbers).

Also would like to touch on your point about trialing for promotion there Robbie. Trust to start off with. Normally a member of management will make sure they are well and truly trusted, giving three members the promotion permissions could have one, or even two abuse it. Another thing is that there aren't enough things to go around, that's why most departments say no more than 4 HRVRs for example (dunno if that's the case), no more than 5 Super Staff for the Helpdesk- it'd make the department VERY chaotic and could put it in a worse state than it already is. Finally the thing which everyone seems to be talking about: being disheartened. I would hate having a "trial promotion" cos it makes me feel under pressure, guilty if I got it over the others and upset if I didn't get it at all. That could lead to three resignations without you even realising it.

[Molly.22]

I haven't read the whole thread as it's got really long but people are saying things about how they 'deserve' to go back to a higher position. I don't think that's true, if you resign, you've given up that position, maybe thats why people don't mind about resigning as they can just get it back when they want? Not that I can say much by going back to a senior role but I guess once you are in a high position, you don't want to go back to being just normal staff. Lots of hardworking staff get nowhere in the department because of people going into these higher positions which could be making people resign. Of course there are both good and bad points of taking someone back but if it makes the department better then why not?

[scott]

As I said. People apply to habbox time and time again when they don't get in - the application process is just a fairer way. Unless you want to go around picking DJs up from other sites because you like them? Because that's essentially the same thing.

And yes - you need to prove dedication, but if you've been here a decent amount of time, showed you're a good DJ, helpful etc. but then are rejected because you have no "experience" that's MORE of a reason to leave because they haven't inquired into what experience you have.

It also shows you're willing to work your way up, if you've worked your way up other sites.

As I said - the manages need to at least ASK the people what experience they have. Whether it been in an application or just a convo on MSN like "hey, have you been Senior at any other sites..." "Yes... at these sites:.." because you cannot know who is the best for the job if you don't know what experience they have.

Regardless of dedication or skill, if you're judging on experience because "He was Senior DJ 2 years ago" but "he is a regular DJ currently" how can you know whether the current regular DJ was not Radio Manager of another official fansite? You can't. And there in lies my point - if you are hiring people because of experience, you have to take into consideration people who have been Seniors at OTHER sites as well as habbox. Because I think someone who has been Radio manager at 10 other sites (obviously they all have to be quite good) compared to one DJ who has been Senior DJ once 1-2 years ago, who would you pick? With a decent bit of common sense - the dude who was RM at 10 other sites. Oh, but wait, you wouldn't know that because you DIDN'T ASK ;l

hxl-

Which broadcasting software do you use to DJ?:
Do you have any experience? (if yes, please list all sites you work(ed) for):
How many hours could you commit to be on air per week?:

forum-

Times spent on the forums (per day):

Past Experience (if any):

People are asked whether they have experience or not :)

[Jsoh]

I haven't read the whole thread as it's got really long but people are saying things about how they 'deserve' to go back to a higher position. I don't think that's true, if you resign, you've given up that position, maybe thats why people don't mind about resigning as they can just get it back when they want? Not that I can say much by going back to a senior role but I guess once you are in a high position, you don't want to go back to being just normal staff. Lots of hardworking staff get nowhere in the department because of people going into these higher positions which could be making people resign. Of course there are both good and bad points of taking someone back but if it makes the department better then why not?

I agree, if someone got a job which is higher up than mine which I wanted and they had previously left, it would be extremely degrading considering I wouldn't have left the site and they weren't dedicated enough to stay.

However at the same time I totally understand why they are allowed to return, because they would make the department work better etc, I don't think it would do any good for morale in the team.

[Alkaz]

Surely if you know that someone has held X, X and X positions and how ever many fansites you should question the dedication they had for them sites and if they would have that for Habbox. The only way to gain trust and for people to know your experience and dedication is through time spent in a department. If you were just given which ever senior position was going who is to say you will know what you're doing and wont mess it up.

[Grig]

I've managed the ClubHabbo radio for a fair few months and I can tell you this, they worked on applications for senior DJs, and that was a nightmare because people became spiteful that they weren't chosen; people got demotivated, people moaned and people quit. It also by far did not represent the best candidate for the job. This was until I abolished the absolutely silly system of picking senior DJs based on applications, but rather pick them on merit of past work and what not. To add, no one is asking you to accept a senior position, you can feel free to reject it if you like. They don't tell you "YO, PICK IT OR WE'LL SHOOT YOU". No it is totally your choice, so if a person doesn't want it, reject.

I would like to think, it's fine and dandy that you have been on BBC 1 for 10 years, or been managing every official fansite under the sun, but, at the end of the day Habbox operates in a completely different way. We are not going to go around every fansite looking and which Head DJ should take the equivalent position here. You work your way up, build your repertoire etc. until management is confident you are the person who can deserve the role more than anyone.

[despect]

tbh it takes time to get a promotion, if you don't get it first time doesnt mean you will never get it just means that you maybe werent meeting the standards yet but you will end getting there one day if you continue to show your dedication and work hard. You can't expect to get a promotion just because you've had high positions at other fansites. :P

[Mathew]

Opening applications for a promotion? Hell, I've heard it all now :P

Obviously the person who can write the best application will get it. It's a stupidly flawed idea and it wouldn't be introduced at Habbox. If you want a promotion, you show your dedication to Habbox, so much so that management recognise it - goodness knows why you'd apply for a flippin' promotion :rolleyes:..

[Hecktix]

I am going to close this thread now as it would seem people didn't get the point I was making. Habbox Management are those who deal with staffing and staffing is one issue that feedback will never control. Habbox Management have the right to appoint whoever they want into a position and Habbox Management will appoint people that will work well for the Department. Habbox Management know their staff very well therefore if when discussing the Senior Staff options a Department Manager makes a point about there not really being anyone suitable for promotion then we will consider previous staff.

Those questioning staff reasons for resigning etc, give us a break we aren't stupid - we would hire someone who resigned for legitimate reasons. I'm sorry but this isn't up for discussion any longer, it's not going to change - we will hire who we think will work best in our Departments, 'cause trust me in saying this, if we just promoted who had been here longest there's chances that areas of this site would fall apart - and that isn't because these people who have been here the longest aren't good staff, they are - however they may not be management material.

Thread closed.

---------- Post added 08-02-2011 at 05:23 PM ----------

I forgot to add, there will always be those that disagree with promotions - each promotion certain people will disagree with, however let's just get it out there that rage quitting because a promotion you don't like went ahead ain't gonna get you promoted any quicker and in the past this attitude has stopped us promoting people who have returned to the department and started again from scratch getting promoted further down the line. ;)