Britain on the Brink / Scottish Independence Referendum

The end of the United Kingdom is only decades away or perhaps even less and the fault is at the door of the party which implemented devolution based on party politics in the short term, Labour. It must however also be remembered that the Conservative and Unionist Party has failed not only on everything else in politics and the defence of this nation, but also in their stated duty to protect the Union which its very name contains.

All Empires break up after their success turns into decline and Great Britain would have to be a mighty exception to avoid this. But could this have been avoided in our lifetime? I think so - we were still culturally linked enough and I do think we can still pull it back, but only by a long shot which would involve reversing devolution which is something that the main parties simply will not do. An interesting glimpse into the past and a prediction from Enoch Powell which is turning out to be correct as Powell usually was;

When Labour won the 1997 general election, Enoch Powell was asked by his wife what he thought the election meant: "They have voted to break up the United Kingdom", was Powell's reply.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

Yeah I noticed Plaid Cymru lost some seats, they're no where near as powerful as the SNP's power in Scotland. I imagine though if Scotland did well under independence, the Welsh would soon begin to warm the idea. However if it wasn't working well for Scotland, no doubt Wales would still want to be part of the UK (or whatever England, Wales and NI make up).

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I don't think there will ever be any appetite for independence in Wales. It is not even an issue with most of the nationalists only a couple of die hards and amazingly the people of Wales do have their own points of view and are not like the their most popular animal - the sheep! :P

I hope that if there's a referendum on Independence people vote to stay in the Union. Scotland would fall apart if we weren't in it. Their priorities are completely wrong as well, there should be a referendum on whether we should leave the EU, I think that's the general consensus. Most people didn't vote SNP for Independence anyway, it's cause there's not much choice left after 3 failed parties. The Scottish Parliament hasn't done much to help Scotland anyway, and it's completely wrong when you have MSPs, MPs and MEPs.

Dan is right that there is only one party to blame and thats the Labour party. The United Kingdom is ruled from London (hence why its called the united kingdom since all geographic areas are ruled from the same please) and is not called The United Kingdom and all minor assemblys.

In my view, there is only one reason why the SNP want Independence for Scotland and thats because Alex Salmond wants to be the PM of scotland so he can up his ego. You may or may not agree but he is one selfish being who will try and steam roll over everyone and everything just so he can be called PM.

We all know scotland will fail by itself as its largely funded by the english and if it were to leave the union, it would have no welfare state what-so-ever because of the sheer amount of debt it would have. Quite frankly, they are living in fairy land if they think they can survive by themselves.

However, your absolutely spot on about DC and the Conservatives. The devolutions of parliament need to be reversed and sent back into the depths of history where they should of remained and will hopefully remain in the future. I almost have to laugh at how pathetic the SNP actually are :P.

Mind you, if scotland was taken off the map then labour can say good bye to ever having a majority in the commons ever again :PP!!

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Originally Posted by jam666

Dan is right that there is only one party to blame and thats the Labour party. The United Kingdom is ruled from London (hence why its called the united kingdom since all geographic areas are ruled from the same please) and is not called The United Kingdom and all minor assemblys.

In my view, there is only one reason why the SNP want Independence for Scotland and thats because Alex Salmond wants to be the PM of scotland so he can up his ego. You may or may not agree but he is one selfish being who will try and steam roll over everyone and everything just so he can be called PM.

We all know scotland will fail by itself as its largely funded by the english and if it were to leave the union, it would have no welfare state what-so-ever because of the sheer amount of debt it would have. Quite frankly, they are living in fairy land if they think they can survive by themselves.

However, your absolutely spot on about DC and the Conservatives. The devolutions of parliament need to be reversed and sent back into the depths of history where they should of remained and will hopefully remain in the future. I almost have to laugh at how pathetic the SNP actually are :P.

Mind you, if scotland was taken off the map then labour can say good bye to ever having a majority in the commons ever again :PP!!

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That last point is true. Maybe it will be good for us? :P But yeah as myself and Dan have said previously - it's all or nothing. We can't have these devolved assemblies with some powers but not others. If DC is really going to fight independence he should be taking back powers from the assemblies until he actually can say they no longer have a reason to exist.

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Originally Posted by Right-Wing

Pull out of the EU now. Sooner the better - all it does is cost us money and sovereignty. Agree trade agreements, agree migration agreements, agree treaties, but just get the **** out of the EU.

Then give the Scots independence because I don't like how they can vote on who is in parliament in England without letting us vote who's in parliament for Scotland.

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What the hell? You want all that stuff with Europe, that is the whole reason we are in it - they won't just give us everything we want, if we are not doing something for the union. What a clueless post.

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Originally Posted by Marketing

What the hell? You want all that stuff with Europe, that is the whole reason we are in it - they won't just give us everything we want, if we are not doing something for the union. What a clueless post.

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We are not in European Union for those reasons, infact being in the European Union removes the right of the British government to sign trade agreements, decide immigration quotas/rules and also restricts treaties - one example was, and it still creates bad feeling in New Zealand/Australia and the rest of the Commonwealth - how we turned our backs on them and cancelled trade agreements with them overnight when we joined the EU.

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Originally Posted by Marketing

What the hell? You want all that stuff with Europe, that is the whole reason we are in it - they won't just give us everything we want, if we are not doing something for the union. What a clueless post.

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They've taken away the power of our courts and eroded our Parliaments powers. The EU should not be controlling our laws. All we need from Europe is trading and alliances. Nothing else. We shouldn't be giving up our laws, sovereignty and our country's image for a bit of trade. We have unlimited EU immigrants every year - not good. We have bailed out Portugal, Greece & Ireland - not good. Our laws have been overturned by the EU - not good. The EU is ruining our country's image, what England is. Each country has different beliefs and each country should have different laws to fit those beliefs. I refuse to let the EU dictate what we should do in our own country just for a bit of trading with them. Pull out, get some trade deals. Done.

The EU is a waste of resources, it's common sense and widely accepted now - that debate was and is over :P If Scotland want independence, we should let them have it - we're not some heartless, money absorbing organisation that doesn't benefit countries under its flag and name (glares at the blue flag with lots of yellow stars in a circle). I do think the Union could exist under a different use, and that's trade and the sharing of common interests and law.

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Originally Posted by Marketing

What the hell? You want all that stuff with Europe, that is the whole reason we are in it - they won't just give us everything we want, if we are not doing something for the union. What a clueless post.

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Actually, you're wrong. Under the EU, trade agreements are more like "trade restrictions" than the belief that "free trade" exists, which is what is usually blabbed about when the EU rears it's ugly, haemoraging head. Look up "Kenyan Flower Market EU" and then also look up articles about how the EU messes up certain industries using blanket laws/rules which effect nations that aren't barbaric or damn right stupid (the UK) who know what the word "limit" means in the same context as fishing :rolleyes:

The EU looks good at a glance, but it is outdated, restrictive and a waste of good money for all nations involved with the organisation.

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Originally Posted by Jordy

Yeah I noticed Plaid Cymru lost some seats, they're no where near as powerful as the SNP's power in Scotland. I imagine though if Scotland did well under independence, the Welsh would soon begin to warm the idea. However if it wasn't working well for Scotland, no doubt Wales would still want to be part of the UK (or whatever England, Wales and NI make up).

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That's funny!

Give Scotland independence with 2 conditions;
1) We don't set up some silly charity fund directly into the pocket of their government
2) When it inevitably falls apart we don't have to pick up the pieces.

Obviously we all know we need to leave the EU. When people vote in a democratic government we might be able to.