no, as the united kingdom's economy would crumble slightly
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no, as the united kingdom's economy would crumble slightly
No, since passport control would take longer
Yes, quite possibly. The European Union have a LOT of bargaining power with us. What's to stop them from banging a €500 levy on our cars?Quote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
The EU of course trades with other countries, but the main focus is free trade and a single market between member states, not everyone else.
Trade treaties are not simple in any case. Things have to be bargained for and against. And alot (but not all) of the chips are in their hand.
We can do this by joining the EEA, less contribution, but we get no say in alot of laws that we still have to abide by.Quote:
I and euro-sceptics are not saying lets stop trading with the EU and be isolationist, all we are saying is that we want to trade and be friends with Europe, but without being governed by Europe.
What the bloody hell are you on about? Of course there will be inflation... No more polish builders or plumbers, higher costs of labour in employing british ones. Lower supply of labour into the unskilled labour market means an increase in labour costs... Surely you can see that? Inflation means a falling pound. You obviously don't understand some very basic economic principals.Quote:
There would not be a big increase in Labour costs at all, have other European nations and the rest of the world suffered rapid inflation rises and a deflating currency because they are not in the European Union?
Direct Democracy is very very flawed, due to the fact that not everyone has the capactity, mentally-wise and time-wise or to be able to consider the implications of such a move. That's why we elect MPs who are meant to do that for us. That's how our democracy works. You only have the right to complain in my view if you voted for an MP with conflicting messages.Quote:
Now now, come on. I want you to tell me why the British people do not deserve the right to say whether they want to be part of a European Federal superstate which makes 84% of their laws unelected - I want the answer why direct democracy doesn't seem good enough for you when it comes to this issue.
..because what you do then, is you threaten them with trade wars by threatening to put taxes on their goods coming here, we have the commonwealth and the United States to turn to, Europe has nobody but itself to turn to.Quote:
Yes, quite possibly. The European Union have a LOT of bargaining power with us. What's to stop them from banging a €500 levy on our cars?
Trade wars will not happen, does it happen with any other non-EU European nation?
The EU of course trades with other countries, but the main focus is free trade and a single market between member states, not everyone else.
They are simple, if Europe needs us like we are told we need them, then we can still trade with Europe and co-operate, but it means we are not governed by Europe. You and other eurocrats always try to complicate the issue, the rest of the world does it - why can't we?Quote:
Trade treaties are not simple in any case. Things have to be bargained for and against. And alot (but not all) of the chips are in their hand.
Not good enough.Quote:
We can do this by joining the EEA, less contribution, but we get no say in alot of laws that we still have to abide by.
I want my laws to be made by my government, my democratically elected government who I voted in based on their manifesto and promises/ideas. The United Kingdom did not vote for these people to make our laws, to tell us how loud our mp3s' can be, what colour our traffic lights can and cannot be, how big our fruit and veg is appropiate, what measurement system we use, what and how we trade.
Do you federalists not understand this?
I'm not sure whether you understand or not that we are in a recession and the housing market has been laying off worker after worker, company after company has gone bust because there are no jobs. I'm afraid leaving the EU doesn't stop us having a open-border policy to those who wish to work here, have you not heard of a visa?Quote:
What the bloody hell are you on about? Of course there will be inflation... No more polish builders or plumbers, higher costs of labour in employing british ones. Lower supply of labour into the unskilled labour market means an increase in labour costs... Surely you can see that? Inflation means a falling pound. You obviously don't understand some very basic economic principals.
The former minister for Europe, Caroline Flint an MP didn't read the Lisbon Treaty yet she, just like you, is telling the British people they are too stupid to make a decision. How arrogant of you, so is that why we don't elect the EU commission because our poor mental skills would make us vote for the wrong person?Quote:
Direct Democracy is very very flawed, due to the fact that not everyone has the capactity, mentally-wise and time-wise or to be able to consider the implications of such a move. That's why we elect MPs who are meant to do that for us. That's how our democracy works. You only have the right to complain in my view if you voted for an MP with conflicting messages.
Direct democracy does what it says, its direct. Do you want the United Kingdom to be a part of the European Union? - SIMPLE 2 ANSWER QUESTION.
Do not insult the publics intelligence in this country by telling them they don't have the mental skills/understand what the European Union/Lisbon Treaty is. On your point about MPs', not party ever said in their manifesto that they would sign the United Kingdom up to the European Union, its been pushed down on us;
We NEVER voted to join the EU.
ahhh you're right, that would explain why there are riots in the street at the anger over it through the past 15 years or soQuote:
Originally Posted by -:Undertaker:-
seriously though, less time at passport control and free trading in the EU is surely not a bad thing
The British people are not like the French and others, and why would we take to violence against something, would you prefer that? - and as proven above the European Union is not free trading, free trading is sovereign trading between independant and individual states, not a political, social and economic union.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ardemax
Oh and 5 minutes less at passport control isn't worth tens of billions, if not hundreds of billions every year to the British taxypayer.
PS. If you are going discuss the issue properly this time, then be prepared to answer questions rather than avoid them like in other threads.
The treaty should never have been signed in 1970 (or when ever it was, I;m sure it came into play on 1st Jan 1971/2). Yes we should leave. Great Britain is no longer 'great'.
Arguably, it is too late to pull out of the EU. The EU has made it so that if you disagree, you're kinda stuck unless more countries start pulling out at the same time.
We need to try and get out of it asap before they pass laws saying no one can get out of it. Or if we can it will probably cost like £100bn
I do think that this country needs to hold a referendum on the EU. It's something that a majority of this country doesn't even want to be a part of. The problem is; what's the chance of it happening?
The next election will be between two parties; Labour and Conservative. They're the only parties that can win - yet none of them are offering us a referendum.