Should the United Kingdom leave the European Union?

[GommeInc]

I don't know why the EU didn't just exist to help the weaker European countries, the western ones were doing perfectly fine without the EU :/ The UK, Spain, France, Italy, The Netherlands, Germany, Belgium. Heck, Switzerland is living proof that dependence on something like the European Union isn't necessary. The only thing I can think of the that the EU had helped with was re-building, but that was a group effort of each individual country, not that of the EUs :/

[alexxxxx]

What unexpected circumstances? - you mean the ability to make our own laws?. You yourself are a self-confessed federalist, you want to see a Federal Europe - we do not. Instead of making crazy statements about 'consquences' of leaving the European Union, why don't you tell us them?

A siginificant drop in foreign investment, multinationals leaving crippling the final pieces of manufacturing we have, 750 000 people who live in spain (mostly without jobs, retired folks) uncertain about their future, the thousands of british living abroad in high-value jobs uncertain with their future also, students abroad in programmes funded by EU will have their courses killed, import/export duties on products, cuts in funding in sectors overlooked by british government. Hundreds of thousands of eastern europeans in low paid jobs will have to leave plus those in high paid jobs possibly meaning we're unlikely to be able to plug gaps in vacancies.

I'd expect MASSIVE inflation, a drop in the value of the pound, another recession and another lost decade.

If you eurosceptics stopped complaining and sorted out forming a new party which is electable, you might have a chance. UKIP is a fraud-ridden, petty, self-righteous unelectable mess with no real policies.

[-:Undertaker:-]

A siginificant drop in foreign investment, multinationals leaving crippling the final pieces of manufacturing we have, 750 000 people who live in spain (mostly without jobs, retired folks) uncertain about their future, the thousands of british living abroad in high-value jobs uncertain with their future also, students abroad in programmes funded by EU will have their courses killed, import/export duties on products, cuts in funding in sectors overlooked by british government. Hundreds of thousands of eastern europeans in low paid jobs will have to leave plus those in high paid jobs possibly meaning we're unlikely to be able to plug gaps in vacancies.

I'd expect MASSIVE inflation, a drop in the value of the pound, another recession and another lost decade.

If you eurosceptics stopped complaining and sorted out forming a new party which is electable, you might have a chance. UKIP is a fraud-ridden, petty, self-righteous unelectable mess with no real policies.

• A seperate independant treaty with the Spanish government would be enforced to assure the placement of all those people living in Spain, Spanish settlements could not afford to lose that investment. That is one of the best things about independance, working it out between ourselves.
• The students who are 'funded by the EU' would not lose their courses, the money we gained back from leaving the EU would leave us with billions upon billions extra to fund any outgoing programmes such as that, and that money could be spent here where it was generated.
• Multi-nationals would not have to leave, immigration/work permits can be granted via visas just like they are throughout the rest of the world.
• The pound would not drop, its not related to the Euro at all and investment would not drop either, the rest of the world in not in the European Union so why would investment drop? - if anything, the loss of thousands upon thousands of crippling regulations that costs business billions every year in enforcing because of the EU, business would actually stand to gain.
• We are the worlds sixth largest economy, investment would not dry up at all. Utter rubbish.
• How would a recession come about? - where there is money to be made, there is money to be made. It is as simple as that.

Yet more scare-mongering from the federalists none of which makes any sense what so ever. I notice you still wouldn't support a referendum on the issue which goes to show, afraid of the democratic voice of people. UKIP beat Labour and the Liberal Democrats in the European Elections, which goes to show what people think of your federalist superstate.

[alexxxxx]

• A seperate independant treaty with the Spanish government would be enforced to assure the placement of all those people living in Spain, Spanish settlements could not afford to lose that investment. That is one of the best things about independance, working it out between ourselves.

Not possible due to the schengen area. Every one of them would require a schengen visa, which normally wouldn't be granted for those without jobs.

• The students who are 'funded by the EU' would not lose their courses, the money we gained back from leaving the EU would leave us with billions upon billions extra to fund any outgoing programmes such as that, and that money could be spent here where it was generated.

So we'll still pay the same amount of money, no money saved.

• Multi-nationals would not have to leave, immigration/work permits can be granted via visas just like they are throughout the rest of the world.

Say a car company is producing cars and they export ALOT of them to france and germany. France puts a tax of €500 for every car imported from us. Car companies stop producing here and move to france. Not everyone here already (especially doing lowly paid jobs) will be eligible. Massive demand for labour, increase in wage... INFLATION. I guess you can't think through consequences..

• The pound would not drop, its not related to the Euro at all and investment would not drop either, the rest of the world in not in the European Union so why would investment drop? - if anything, the loss of thousands upon thousands of crippling regulations that costs business billions every year in enforcing because of the EU, business would actually stand to gain.

Well done, the pound is not related to the euro. That's a good one. I tell you understand basic economic principals. :rolleyes: It's a bit deeper than that. Inflation, which is almost guaranteed, due to the exit of the EU will devalue the pound.

• How would a recession come about? - where there is money to be made, there is money to be made. It is as simple as that.

Yet more scare-mongering from the federalists none of which makes any sense what so ever. I notice you still wouldn't support a referendum on the issue which goes to show, afraid of the democratic voice of people.

Due to inevitable inflation caused by more expensive imports, a recession is a great possibility.

[-:Undertaker:-]

Not possible due to the schengen area. Every one of them would require a schengen visa, which normally wouldn't be granted for those without jobs.

..so basically you have just admitted that the European Union stifles free movement/trade, thats what you are saying. The Spanish government could not remove 750,000+ people from Spain, a solution would be found such as a sovereign treaty.

So we'll still pay the same amount of money, no money saved.

Actually no, because that would be a fraction of the cost of leaving the European Union. We pay 40/50 million just in membership every day, not including all the other costs of the European Union, I saw a post on this very forum the other day which put the cost of one part of the EU at 50 billion a year.

Say a car company is producing cars and they export ALOT of them to france and germany. France puts a tax of €500 for every car imported from us. Car companies stop producing here and move to france. Not everyone here already (especially doing lowly paid jobs) will be eligible. Massive demand for labour, increase in wage... INFLATION. I guess you can't think through consequences..

We hardly have any car companies left, and theres something else; tariffs and trade costs can be reduced/removed just like every other single country in the world does.

Well done, the pound is not related to the euro. That's a good one. I tell you understand basic economic principals. :rolleyes: It's a bit deeper than that. Inflation, which is almost guaranteed, due to the exit of the EU will devalue the pound.

Currencies change all the time, perhaps in the first few days it would decrease, however like all currencies it would bounce back. The pound is tied more closely with the dollar than the Euro. If every other currency crashed because they are not part of the European Union anymore, why is the whole of the world not using the Euro?

A currency reflects the economy, not whether or not you are a EU member.

Due to inevitable inflation caused by more expensive imports, a recession is a great possibility.

Wrong, there is something called trade co-operation, where both countries work to lower tariffs on exports/imports - very simple economics yet without the glorious European Union it seems this would not be possible in your blurred eyes.

..would you also like to tell me why the British people do not deserve a referendum on an unelected federal state that creates 84% of their laws?

[alexxxxx]

..so basically you have just admitted that the European Union stifles free trade, thats what you are saying. The Spanish government could not remove 750,000+ people from Spain, a solution would be found.

what the hell are you on about? the schengen area has nothing to with economics, apart from the removal of internal borders. The EU cares about Free trade between themselves.

We hardly have any car companies left, and theres something else; tariffs and trade costs can be reduced/removed just like every other single country in the world does.

We service the european market here, not the US market, not the south american market, not the asian market in manufacturing high value goods. Thousands and thousands of jobs where i live in the derby/nottingham/midlands area depends on being able to export and import from within the european union. It's not just the car market though is it? We have toyota, rolls-royce, bombadier and countless other makers employing people here. Millions of jobs require on our ability to export and import freely. Granted, not every one of these jobs would be affected with leaving the EU, but some would ultimately be lost. Misguided protectionist legislation would no doubt be implemented increasing prices.

Currencies change all the time, perhaps in the first few days it would decrease, however like all currencies it would bounce back. The pound is tied more closely with the dollar than the Euro. If every other currency crashed because they are not part of the European Union anymore, why is the whole of the world not using the Euro?

this has absolutely nothing to do with the euro. The pound would drop due to INFLATION cause by a large increase in labour costs. The effects of this might not be felt for 3-6months.

Wrong, there is something called trade co-operation, where both countries work to lower tariffs on exports/imports - very simple economics yet without the glorious European Union it seems this would not be possible in your blurred eyes.

Which is called the EEA when negotiaiting with the EU, which essentially means being faxed laws from brussels to implement.

..would you also like to tell me why the British people do not deserve a referendum on an unelected federal state that creates 84% of their laws?

You must never read my posts.

[-:Undertaker:-]

what the hell are you on about? the schengen area has nothing to with economics, apart from the removal of internal borders. The EU cares about Free trade between themselves.

Does the EU trade with other nations outside of the EU?

If yes, then why can the United Kingdom not also trade as an outside partner.

If no, then the EU is a closed economy.

We service the european market here, not the US market, not the south american market, not the asian market in manufacturing high value goods. Thousands and thousands of jobs where i live in the derby/nottingham/midlands area depends on being able to export and import from within the european union. It's not just the car market though is it? We have toyota, rolls-royce, bombadier and countless other makers employing people here. Millions of jobs require on our ability to export and import freely. Granted, not every one of these jobs would be affected with leaving the EU, but some would ultimately be lost. Misguided protectionist legislation would no doubt be implemented increasing prices.

..so what, the EU will all of a sudden stop buying our cars? - no, what you simply do it work together and work out a independant and free trade policy with limited tariffs between the United Kingdom and the EU. The rest of the world does it, do why can we not?

I and euro-sceptics are not saying lets stop trading with the EU and be isolationist, all we are saying is that we want to trade and be friends with Europe, but without being governed by Europe.

this has absolutely nothing to do with the euro. The pound would drop due to INFLATION cause by a large increase in labour costs. The effects of this might not be felt for 3-6months.

There would not be a big increase in Labour costs at all, have other European nations and the rest of the world suffered rapid inflation rises and a deflating currency because they are not in the European Union?

You must never read my posts.

Now now, come on. I want you to tell me why the British people do not deserve the right to say whether they want to be part of a European Federal superstate which makes 84% of their laws unelected - I want the answer why direct democracy doesn't seem good enough for you when it comes to this issue.

[LuketheDuke]

the 84% lie which you keep on regurgitating is a LIE

please any poster who reads such a figure please do not believe it, annoys the heck out of me.

lets all leave the global leader of GDP per capita in the middle of a recession, lets all pay more for things when their cheaper at the moment, lets all put our faith in a judicial system which is as corrupt as our monarchy.

stupid.

[Blinger1]

Heck, Switzerland is living proof that dependence on something like the European Union isn't necessary.

Us Swiss are quite the clever type :8

[-:Undertaker:-]

the 84% lie which you keep on regurgitating is a LIE

please any poster who reads such a figure please do not believe it, annoys the heck out of me.

lets all leave the global leader of GDP per capita in the middle of a recession, lets all pay more for things when their cheaper at the moment, lets all put our faith in a judicial system which is as corrupt as our monarchy.

stupid.

On the issue of the global leader, well you just said it yourself. You are also a left wing socialist federalist who appears to have something against the monarchy, yet turns a blind eye to the unchecked audit books in the European Union from which BILLIONS have gone missing over the past decade. Do you support a referendum on Britains EU membership?

Who am I going to trust to put myself and my family first? - my own country or a federation of 27 other countries? - doesn't even need an answer.

The 84% is not a lie at all, it was the only study done on this subject and it was done by a German think-tank which worked out this figure for Germany which many agree is applical to the United Kingdom both based on size and economics. On Question Time the Conservative MEP Daniel Hannan mentioned this figure and it wasn't even dismissed by the Labour MP. It is fact and is widely accepted both by eurosceptics and pro-federalists.

..so who are people going to believe, the EU or an independant study?