Clegg and Cameron turn on Oxford University over race/wealth status of students

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Originally Posted by lxce

Also on uni fees why should my family be charged the full whack yes we could afford it if push came to shove but the only reason i have to pay it is because so many people are going to university to do degrees they don't need to do. Communications and Media? sorry but give me a break you don't need to study for three years to come out and be able to communicate. resources have to be used up on the wasters so the serious people who have the potential to use their degree for the good of the economy and not just go into a job that you don't need a degree for should be supported because at the end of the day they are going to be the ones paying it back to society in the form of higher taxes and efficient human capital.

so many people are scared of being seen as elitist, racist, classist. I say - grow up, who cares.

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I used to dislike you. But actually your posts make a lot of sense. Repped.

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Originally Posted by NaughtyNemo

What, that makes perfect sense to me? Why give others a disadvantage just because they cant afford it. And if you're being charged the full whack then obviously your income can support that?

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Because, believe it or not, just because my parents get a decent income, doesn't mean they can just throw out 30k for me to go to University. Believe it or not, just because my parents earn over 50k a year, does not mean they can throw money at whatever they feel like.

Let me tell you this. When I was younger, if I did nothing to earn it, I would get £5 a month pocket money. Many friends of mine, who I am not scared to say were not in as fortunate position as my family was, got six times that - for doing nothing.

Look at the EMA system. I had many friends getting given the full whack. My parents wouldn't just give me £30 a week or whatever it was for going to sixth form. What did I get? Nothing. I will get loans in general, my parents il supportme a bit, but how comes it is right for someone who is not spoilt, despite the fact their parents have money, to have to get in huge amounts of debt to go to university, yet those who are not as fortunate to start off with, don't have to pay the same amount.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks that is fair is an imbecile.

I agree with those of use who said you get the grades you get the place as it is the most fairest way to decide who gets a place.

Yeah I am not poor enough to get the support but in no way can my parents afford to send me to a top rate uni (Lucky I don't wanna go to one. Drama schools ftw)

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Originally Posted by NaughtyNemo

What, that makes perfect sense to me? Why give others a disadvantage just because they cant afford it. And if you're being charged the full whack then obviously your income can support that?

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But that's why they get a loan and loads of grants. University was free from like the 60s to 90s and yet most poor people still went to work down the mines.

i find cameron/clegg talking about fair policies on entrance to schools laughable considering their life experience. but find me a politician who hasn't passed through a nice public school aha.

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Originally Posted by bethie

i find cameron/clegg talking about fair policies on entrance to schools laughable considering their life experience. but find me a politician who hasn't passed through a nice public school aha.

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i just find it funny when cameron talks about fair opportunities when he was groomed from the start he's a stereotypical Tory leader private schooled and cambridge to do a degree like Politics, Psychology and Sociology then having a safe seat in parliament in a nice upper class area with all the Eton boys running around. I have nothing against oxford and cambridge but i don't think people should be groomed to go there and get into government. In my opinion he can't get what it's like to go through the system normally because he's never done it. I met an MP for Labour south wales when i went to parliament on budget day and she has a humble background not poor by comprehensively educated and was a french teacher in her constituency but now is a labour MP in a safe seat, because she made it safe. I would rather have someone with a real passion for politics in my local area and someone who has lived her and been there for a while to represent me rather than someone who has been groomed through the elitist system and is now in my area because it's safe.

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Originally Posted by Milestone

Intelligence does come down to memory.

If you do't remember what you need to know, you will never succeed.

I mean, how do you ride a bike? You learn and remember how to. How do you walk? You learn and remember how to. How do you speak another language? You learn and REMEMBER how to.

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I think he meant short-term memory. Loads of people doing Uni degrees don't care what they're writing about half the time and end up just wanting a degree at the end of the day. Picking a module that is slightly interesting is just a bonus. I find quite a few people are "intelligent" because they put what they know into practice, than remember a line in a book that they will no doubt forget in the future. It depends how you look at intelligence though, both of you are correct :P

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

I think he meant short-term memory. Loads of people doing Uni degrees don't care what they're writing about half the time and end up just wanting a degree at the end of the day. Picking a module that is slightly interesting is just a bonus. I find quite a few people are "intelligent" because they put what they know into practice, than remember a line in a book that they will no doubt forget in the future. It depends how you look at intelligence though, both of you are correct :P

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Yeah i think anyone can remember something like parrot fashion like you could teacher a child to speak out Pi to the first 50 decimals as it first words if you wanted to however i think it's putting what you know into practice which is intelligence. Like GCSEs is all basically information retention however a level i find you more have to put it into practice in essays and such :)

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Originally Posted by Milestone

Because, believe it or not, just because my parents get a decent income, doesn't mean they can just throw out 30k for me to go to University. Believe it or not, just because my parents earn over 50k a year, does not mean they can throw money at whatever they feel like.

Let me tell you this. When I was younger, if I did nothing to earn it, I would get £5 a month pocket money. Many friends of mine, who I am not scared to say were not in as fortunate position as my family was, got six times that - for doing nothing.

Look at the EMA system. I had many friends getting given the full whack. My parents wouldn't just give me £30 a week or whatever it was for going to sixth form. What did I get? Nothing. I will get loans in general, my parents il supportme a bit, but how comes it is right for someone who is not spoilt, despite the fact their parents have money, to have to get in huge amounts of debt to go to university, yet those who are not as fortunate to start off with, don't have to pay the same amount.

Sorry, but anyone who thinks that is fair is an imbecile.

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They're not spending £30k in a year though are they? Its at maximum £9k a year, and its not even paying during the year. Its afterwards which is YOUR debt. They dont have to pay anything, except for your living fees which i dont seeas being something you shouldnt have to pay if you can afford it.

Ya great you got pocket money, guess what? i didnt get pocket money. I dont know what kind of scams these families are pulling because my family has NEVER been in such a financially secure situation where i can get £30 pocket money.

Wahey the ol' EMA has been pulled out, i think anyone brings this out has to be an imbecile. Your parents dont give you £30 a week, fair enough, but think about that stretched across your entire life. How many extra luxuries have you recieved during your life that someone for example in my position will not have gotten? When i was younger all of my family (3 of us) had to sleep on one mattress because thats all we could afford. You've had luxuries and pocket money and quite a lot during your life. To say that life is unfair and you dont get anything because a few poor kids get £30 a week for 2 years, IF they go into full time education and IF they dont have any absents on that week, is frankly ridiculous to say. I do agree that EMA is probably a tad too high and obviously not a lot of it goes on maintaining ones education (unless u count the fact people wont be getting a job to support their social life), but this isnt a discussion about that.

Sure, you might not be spoilt, but you still have money. Perhaps the threshold could be changed somewhat but that's how it is. You'll be able to pay it back otherwise you wouldnt be going, but im assuming you are, so it obviously isnt that crippling.

I will neither respond nor read your reply since i honestly couldnt give a damn about any of this since nothing i say will change therefore im just wasting my time, but have at it anyway.

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Originally Posted by NaughtyNemo

They're not spending £30k in a year though are they? Its at maximum £9k a year, and its not even paying during the year. Its afterwards which is YOUR debt. They dont have to pay anything, except for your living fees which i dont seeas being something you shouldnt have to pay if you can afford it.

Ya great you got pocket money, guess what? i didnt get pocket money. I dont know what kind of scams these families are pulling because my family has NEVER been in such a financially secure situation where i can get £30 pocket money.

Wahey the ol' EMA has been pulled out, i think anyone brings this out has to be an imbecile. Your parents dont give you £30 a week, fair enough, but think about that stretched across your entire life. How many extra luxuries have you recieved during your life that someone for example in my position will not have gotten? When i was younger all of my family (3 of us) had to sleep on one mattress because thats all we could afford. You've had luxuries and pocket money and quite a lot during your life. To say that life is unfair and you dont get anything because a few poor kids get £30 a week for 2 years, IF they go into full time education and IF they dont have any absents on that week, is frankly ridiculous to say. I do agree that EMA is probably a tad too high and obviously not a lot of it goes on maintaining ones education (unless u count the fact people wont be getting a job to support their social life), but this isnt a discussion about that.

Sure, you might not be spoilt, but you still have money. Perhaps the threshold could be changed somewhat but that's how it is. You'll be able to pay it back otherwise you wouldnt be going, but im assuming you are, so it obviously isnt that crippling.

I will neither respond nor read your reply since i honestly couldnt give a damn about any of this since nothing i say will change therefore im just wasting my time, but have at it anyway.

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I'm sorry but you are completely deluded on the whole issue at hand. Society and life in general is NOT about rich or poor. Believe or not you can be "poor" and be rich just as you can be "rich" but poor. You may find that hard to be believe and quite a shocking thing for me to say but it is actually 100% true.

The matter boils down to money management. If your parents earn 50k a year but they dont manage their money properly then you'll have decreased living standards. However if your parents earn 15k a year and do manage their money properly I guarantee you will have a much higher standard of living than the parents who earn 50k.

I'm simply using this as an example but the vast majority earn x2 - x3 more than my family does (because my parents dont need to work due to proceeds from business in the 90's hence our income is zero) as we keep expenditure down and save save save, were not rich by any means compared to people like my friends but I can certainly tell you I have a much higher standard of living than they do (infact, they actually think im loaded because I never seem short of money, But I can safely say i am far from loaded).