Does Christmas offend you?

ok here's your proof:

http://www.sowhataboutjesus.com/existed.php

i didn't say you have to believe he performed miracles, im just saying the actual human being Jesus, existed

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Originally Posted by GommeInc

That's not commericialisation. That's just converting a holiday from one purpose to another e.g. Christmas the Pagan holiday to Christmas the Christian holiday. Commericialisation is using an event, object or person to maximise profit, which Christmas doesn't actually do in terms of Christianity in religion. Although they are commercialised through Christian holidays, they're not actually commercialised by Christianity itself - though Christians find sharing their beliefs with newcomers, they don't really intend to maximise profits at the end of the day, especially when it's the relgious holidays themselves which tend to cost the church more than any other day (Christmas costs alot, and the money spent on it usually comes from non-religious, community events).

So yeah, what you're saying makes sense, but it's not commercialisations because Christians didn't steal the Pagan holiday for profit margins, they just stole it for religious reasons to convert non-believers which isn't commericialisation (as commercialisation is about money, not people). Not sure what word can actually be used though in its place :/ It's like Pagans had their holiday stolen by Christians, and Christians had their holiday stolen by capitalists (is that the word?).

I tend to hate mainstream events now, I hate things going on sale way before the event. I'd support any government in one way or another if they brought up the idea of banning shops from advertising mainstream events over 1 or 2 months in advance. It's stupid and makes the event dull and boring. Christmas will never be the same now :(

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It's true that the market now holds full control of the holiday seasons, but just think how exactly that came about, the market didn't just think to exploit any random holiday otherwise almost every single holiday to ever exist in modern tradition would be exploited. In the past while Christianity was essentially the most dominant religion in the western world, the religious leaders held the priority positions within the government as well as the highest financial status as the religion at this time was all ready 'commercialised' to increase the image of the religion itself to gain more followers and power, this was done by the religion itself not the market, it would be impossible in those times as the mass media wouldn't have existed.

That's how I see it, whether the religion sold itself out 20 years ago or 300 (random numbers btw) it doesn't matter to me, that's what the religion did and that's why it's commercialised today, basically the religion sold out and now it can't do anything about it, why do you think they don't disagree with the commercialisation, because they were the ones who caused it, and the religions followers today are those who would go against the religion if they spoke out and as a result, they would lose more followers and what power they have left because a majority of the followers today are only interested in what has been commercialised and not about the true meaning behind the holidays.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

ok here's your proof:

http://www.sowhataboutjesus.com/existed.php

i didn't say you have to believe he performed miracles, im just saying the actual human being Jesus, existed

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I don't think anyone would disagree that there was a man named Jesus in the past and that he may have done great things. I think people disagree with the idea that he was the son of God, born by a virgin, performed miracles, died, then resurrected himself, then ascended into Heaven.

I do think it's offensive to Christians (and other Jesus believers) that we all forget about why it's even here and things. But then I'm being a hypocrite because I'm an atheist and I LOVEEE christmas presents. ;)

no, and anybody that finds christmas offensive needs to get their head's checked.

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Originally Posted by iSarcastix

I don't think anyone would disagree that there was a man named Jesus in the past and that he may have done great things. I think people disagree with the idea that he was the son of God, born by a virgin, performed miracles, died, then resurrected himself, then ascended into Heaven.

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Exactly, there was a human called Jesus, it's been proven, but some people just keep denying it!!

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

Exactly, there was a human called Jesus, it's been proven, but some people just keep denying it!!

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Lol. It isn't hard to imagine considering Jesus was actually a popular name during those times :P.

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Originally Posted by iSarcastix

Lol. It isn't hard to imagine considering Jesus was actually a popular name during those times :P.

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Exactly my point. There would have been many Jesus' like smiths and johns. It would have been very common, Im sure a lot of them would have come from Nazareth too, so how do we know they are all talking about the one person.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

ok here's your proof:

http://www.sowhataboutjesus.com/existed.php

i didn't say you have to believe he performed miracles, im just saying the actual human being Jesus, existed

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Im not sayind I dont believe he was a person, Im just prooving taht a lot of people dont and they have a good reason for it. That site just proves that people were tlaking about someone named jesus. There would have been many Jesus' at that time. It was thousands of years ago. You cant always believe what someone says, like someone clamming to be the son of god.

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Originally Posted by Ardemax

Exactly, there was a human called Jesus, it's been proven, but some people just keep denying it!!

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Give me some actual proof, a link to a site where it has people talking about someone called Jesus is not proof, no where near enough anyway. Proof would be something like a photo, but that aint gonna happen... I cant really see how your gonna proove it.

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Originally Posted by anonlmous

Give me some actual proof, a link to a site where it has people talking about someone called Jesus is not proof, no where near enough anyway. Proof would be something like a photo, but that aint gonna happen... I cant really see how your gonna proove it.

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The Shroud of Turin? lol, nevertheless it is widely accepted by historians and scientists, atheist or not, that the hebrew Jesus of Nazareth existed. Who he was and what he did is debated.

agreed with ifuseekamy

there wasn't many Jesus's at the time, as Jesus's meaning is unique.

but jesus probaly only meant unique after.

He was probaly just a doctor, or slit poorly peoples throats and put them in pies to feed the malnourished society he lived in.