Does Christmas offend you?

[VirtualG]

@above jesus existed, fact

@above How do you know he existed? Theres no actual proof, a lot of people would go against you there and would most likely win. (although I do believe there was a jesus, I just dont think he was the son of god and performed fictacious miracles, he would just have been another great prohpet who's stories had Chinese Whispered themselves throughout the land and all of a sudden he's a God, either that or he was a looney who thought he was the son of god and got lucky. Although you can have your own beliefs.)

[J0SH]

No it don't I don't see why I'd be offended, Christmas is just a holiday and we get presents, so it's profit.

[Jssy]

Nope It doesn't, But I have a friend that is a Jehova's witness so I have to be careful what I say

[RandomManJay]

No it don't I don't see why I'd be offended, Christmas is just a holiday and we get presents, so it's profit.

It's in respect of it being a Christian holiday, although you have proven a point that its just a normal holiday now that Christianity has commercialised it.

[Ardemax]

@above How do you know he existed? Theres no actual proof, a lot of people would go against you there and would most likely win. (although I do believe there was a jesus, I just dont think he was the son of god and performed fictacious miracles, he would just have been another great prohpet who's stories had Chinese Whispered themselves throughout the land and all of a sudden he's a God, either that or he was a looney who thought he was the son of god and got lucky. Although you can have your own beliefs.)

jesus existed, it's fact

seriously mate that's not an opinion, an opinion is saying he performed miracles, you don't have to believe that bit but jesus did exist

[VirtualG]

jesus existed, it's fact

seriously mate that's not an opinion, an opinion is saying he performed miracles, you don't have to believe that bit but jesus did exist

Facts need proof, proove it!

[xxMATTGxx]

Christmas doesn't offend me one bit.

[GommeInc]

It's in respect of it being a Christian holiday, although you have proven a point that its just a normal holiday now that Christianity has commercialised it.

... How? Not being gnit picking but Christianity hasn't commercialised it? Not in a money making sense at least, only spiritualised it. In fact, churches lose alot of money during the Christmas period because of the holiday. The money spent on heating, decorations, electric and lighting is money saved up from the year to use for Christmas. If Christianity had commercialised it, they'd be rolling in money, when really they're not :/ It's the commercial sector that has commercialised it (duh), because it's an easy way to make money because it's unwritten law to buy presents for children and others, while with a church it's just an optional pass around a plate or money sack, which only regulars usually are the only ones that have to donate :/

Not that I've been looking at church accounts :eusa_whis

Unless you mean Christianity indirectly commercialised it by believing it was the birth of Jesus Christ, and shops looked at the gift giving side of things and went crazy on that area? Then you'd be more along the right lines Churches are quite poor really, it's a huge misconception that they make alot of money on the religion front.

jesus existed, it's fact

seriously mate that's not an opinion, an opinion is saying he performed miracles, you don't have to believe that bit but jesus did exist

You've made a claim now prove it, thus the point of the argument put forward by VirtualG that he didn't exist :/ How did he exist? When did he exist? What did he do? What physical prove is there? Jesus' exist, but THE Jesus, the one that's talk about (though possibly over-exaggerated in terms of ability), did HE exist?

[RandomManJay]

... How? Not being gnit picking but Christianity hasn't commercialised it? Not in a money making sense at least, only spiritualised it. In fact, churches lose alot of money during the Christmas period because of the holiday. The money spent on heating, decorations, electric and lighting is money saved up from the year to use for Christmas. If Christianity had commercialised it, they'd be rolling in money, when really they're not :/ It's the commercial sector that has commercialised it (duh), because it's an easy way to make money because it's unwritten law to buy presents for children and others, while with a church it's just an optional pass around a plate or money sack, which only regulars usually are the only ones that have to donate :/

Not that I've been looking at church accounts :eusa_whis

Unless you mean Christianity indirectly commercialised it by believing it was the birth of Jesus Christ, and shops looked at the gift giving side of things and went crazy on that area? Then you'd be more along the right lines Churches are quite poor really, it's a huge misconception that they make alot of money on the religion front.

When I say commercialised I'm referring to the amount of Christain religious holidays which are in mainstream society. Most of the religious holidays which are fundamental to Christianity are now holidays celebrated by nearly everyone in western and eastern society, they were commercialised to make people want to convert to Christainity, why else would Christmas, the birth of Jesus Christ be related to getting presents unless you wanted someone to believe in it for that reason? And where does Santa Claus fit into Christianity, he isn't mentioned in the Bible, but he is the main icon of Christmas instead of Jesus Christ (for both the religion, media and retail market). The same has happened for Easter as well. Now I can get how an egg can be related to the resurrection of Christ, but how did they come to be chocolate? Commercialisation was one way how Christianity achieved their high status as one of the most believed and powerful religions in mainstream society, by selling out their holidays as something where you get free stuff as a reason to look forward to it.

It is true that the media and retail market has now taken control of the glorification of Christmas, but you don't see the religion fighting back saying 'nope, you can't have santa, you must have Jesus' or a sign saying 'Xmas is for Christians only'. You can see the effect this commercialisation has had because children nowadays aren't even brought up knowing what Christmas or Easter is about, all they know is that either their parents get them anything they want over Christmas or a fat guy in a red suit does and that they get to collect chocolate eggs and then get to scarf them down till they throw up.

This is my belief in why Christmas doesn't offend anyone, because the most important events ever to occur for Christianity are now nothing more than events where you get presents or chocolate eggs.

[GommeInc]

That's not commericialisation. That's just converting a holiday from one purpose to another e.g. Christmas the Pagan holiday to Christmas the Christian holiday. Commericialisation is using an event, object or person to maximise profit, which Christmas doesn't actually do in terms of Christianity in religion. Although they are commercialised through Christian holidays, they're not actually commercialised by Christianity itself - though Christians find sharing their beliefs with newcomers, they don't really intend to maximise profits at the end of the day, especially when it's the relgious holidays themselves which tend to cost the church more than any other day (Christmas costs alot, and the money spent on it usually comes from non-religious, community events).

So yeah, what you're saying makes sense, but it's not commercialisations because Christians didn't steal the Pagan holiday for profit margins, they just stole it for religious reasons to convert non-believers which isn't commericialisation (as commercialisation is about money, not people). Not sure what word can actually be used though in its place :/ It's like Pagans had their holiday stolen by Christians, and Christians had their holiday stolen by capitalists (is that the word?).

I tend to hate mainstream events now, I hate things going on sale way before the event. I'd support any government in one way or another if they brought up the idea of banning shops from advertising mainstream events over 1 or 2 months in advance. It's stupid and makes the event dull and boring. Christmas will never be the same now